02 Dec 2025, 10:30 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low.  Posted: 01 Nov 2021, 19:08 |
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 8629
Post Likes: +11195
Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote:
We have software that tracks inventory levels it’s just not publicly available. When I quote numbers such as the number of aircraft in the fleet, that’s where I get my data.
It’s a subscription service, most folks in the business have it. One of the issues is it only tracks “for sale” and “closed” and with most closings taking a month or two it skews the data.
We know the exact inventory levels in markets we are currently engaged in, for instance I could tell you exactly how many Phenom 100’s, TBM850’s, Challenger 604’s, Citation CJ1’s, PC12NG’s and PC24’s are available. We have researchers who call and get the status of the airplanes listed on Controller, so we know if they’re already sold or simply not really for sale.
Well, as a newly acquired Phenom 100 owner I’d be interested in what you view that market as. As we have had 3 unsolicited offers for a plane we’ve owned less than 5 months willing to pay a minimum 35% premium on for our plane!?! I understand we have a late model version of the lighter ones but our plane hasn’t been through the 120 month gear and inspection. Yet people are willing to throw an extra $600,000 in my pocket to sell it right now. No idea why. Chip-
The Phenom 100 market is that hot, it's probably the craziest market I have seen, as you know they really dropped in value when those 10 year inspections started hitting, then they recovered... then they got stupid.
I just had a conversation with our client about raising his budget to include EV's and considering M2's as well.
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Recent acquisitions - 2019 King Air 350i - 2025 Citation M2Gen2 - 2015 Citation CJ3+
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 01 Nov 2021, 19:12 |
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 8629
Post Likes: +11195
Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: We know the exact inventory levels in markets we are currently engaged in, for instance I could tell you exactly how many Phenom 100’s, TBM850’s, Challenger 604’s, Citation CJ1’s, PC12NG’s and PC24’s are available. We have researchers who call and get the status of the airplanes listed on Controller, so we know if they’re already sold or simply not really for sale. That fails to capture the local and limited person to person sales that never get advertised. You can only detect that after the fact with registration changes, not in the moment. So your numbers will be incomplete even though you spend money to a service (which always makes one feel like the numbers are valuable). There's no way that service can know what is going on in private conversations and transactions. Also, planes listed on controller are often not for sale. In some jurisdictions, you can avoid sales tax if you are a "dealer" and one way to be a dealer is to advertise an airplane for sale. But they really aren't. Mike C.
We're not tracking sales, we don't really care how many sell. We are tracking available airplanes or better said looking for available airplanes that match our clients criteria.
You are right, many aircraft in this market are selling from friend to friend. I just acquired a CJ1 from a friend of mine for one of our clients... no one else ever knew about it.
You are also correct that many aircraft on Controller are not really for sale, though even those seem to be dropping.
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Recent acquisitions - 2019 King Air 350i - 2025 Citation M2Gen2 - 2015 Citation CJ3+
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 01 Nov 2021, 19:26 |
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20782
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: no one else ever knew about it. Which means you don't know about other deals you aren't involved in. No one person knows exactly which planes are available. Anyone who claims that isn't being honest. Mike C.
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Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 01 Nov 2021, 19:30 |
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 8629
Post Likes: +11195
Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: no one else ever knew about it. Which means you don't know about other deals you aren't involved in. No one person knows exactly which planes are available. Anyone who claims that isn't being honest. Mike C.
Well of course not!
I haven't claimed to know all deals, we track what's available and we look for available aircraft.
That's all... and yes I do pay over $2000 a month for the information to do what we do and it's information you don't have, which is probably why you have a burr under your saddle.
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Recent acquisitions - 2019 King Air 350i - 2025 Citation M2Gen2 - 2015 Citation CJ3+
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 01 Nov 2021, 20:24 |
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20782
Post Likes: +26298
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: I do pay over $2000 a month Apparently the emperor's new clothes cost $24K per year. Someone has a really sweet business model, selling information they can basically make up from public sources. Kind of like the guys who list stuff on eBay for twice the street price. Quote: it's information you don't have I'd rather have the $24K, thanks. This is a great example of the "value must equal cost" fallacy. Mike C.
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Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 01 Nov 2021, 20:38 |
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 8629
Post Likes: +11195
Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: I do pay over $2000 a month Apparently the emperor's new clothes cost $24K per year. Someone has a really sweet business model, selling information they can basically make up from public sources. Kind of like the guys who list stuff on eBay for twice the street price. Quote: it's information you don't have I'd rather have the $24K, thanks. This is a great example of the "value must equal cost" fallacy. Mike C.
You have no idea what you are talking about. If you’re ever down in Nashville stop by the office and I’ll show you JetNet and what information I’m referring to.
Your business doesn’t require you to have this information, mine does. Just like a mechanic has to pay for access to maintenance manuals or a repair station has to have Corridor.
At least we don’t sell airplanes, most of the brokers are paying Controller thousands per month.
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Recent acquisitions - 2019 King Air 350i - 2025 Citation M2Gen2 - 2015 Citation CJ3+
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 01 Nov 2021, 21:01 |
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20782
Post Likes: +26298
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: I haven't claimed to know all deals You did: "We know the exact inventory levels in markets we are currently engaged in" If you made a deal that didn't show up in your expensive service, then others do the same, so that information is not exact, it is incomplete, no matter how much you pay for it. You don't seem to get the inconsistency between "I know everything that is for sale" and "I found airplanes for sale no one else knows about". You can't have both. Mike C.
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 01 Nov 2021, 21:06 |
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 8629
Post Likes: +11195
Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: I haven't claimed to know all deals You did: "We know the exact inventory levels in markets we are currently engaged in" If you made a deal that didn't show up in your expensive service, then others do the same, so that information is not exact, it is incomplete, no matter how much you pay for it. You don't seem to get the inconsistency between "I know everything that is for sale" and "I found airplanes for sale no one else knows about". You can't have both. Mike C.
Mike, “Inventory” refers to advertised aircraft. Not all aircraft. When something is for sale it is in “inventory” we do know the exact inventory levels because I have employees who call the brokers of listed aircraft to determine if they are actually available or if they are under contract. When an airplane goes under contract that lowers the inventory of that market by one.
When we say “Inventory levels are critically low” we are referring to the number of airplanes on the market.
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Recent acquisitions - 2019 King Air 350i - 2025 Citation M2Gen2 - 2015 Citation CJ3+
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 01 Nov 2021, 21:13 |
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Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 20782
Post Likes: +26298
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Mike, “Inventory” refers to advertised aircraft. Not all aircraft. You pay $24K/year to find out what is publicly advertised? There's this thing call Internet... Quote: I have employees who call the brokers... You pay $24K/year and in addition you also hire multiple employees to call brokers? You sure spend a lot of money on this. It is no wonder you think your data is awesome and special, it costs so much! Mike C.
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 01 Nov 2021, 21:21 |
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 8629
Post Likes: +11195
Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: Mike, “Inventory” refers to advertised aircraft. Not all aircraft. You pay $24K/year to find out what is publicly advertised? There's this thing call Internet... Quote: I have employees who call the brokers... You pay $24K/year and in addition you also hire multiple employees to call brokers? You sure spend a lot of money on this. It is no wonder you think your data is awesome and special, it costs so much! Mike C.
As you often do, you are combining two different things and then trying to say the whole, you created, doesn’t make any sense.
Our team calls the brokers who have airplanes listed on Controller, using Controller. That’s how we know if what is on Controller is actually for sale or not. It use to be that about half the airplanes we helped acquire were listed on Controller. This year it has been exactly 1.
Our team uses our “special service” to track all airplanes that meet our client’s criteria.
By the way I appreciate the distraction, it’s been a long and intense day. The ability to go back and forth with mindless banter relaxes me, prepares me for a good night’s sleep so I can hit it again tomorrow.
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Recent acquisitions - 2019 King Air 350i - 2025 Citation M2Gen2 - 2015 Citation CJ3+
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 01 Nov 2021, 21:35 |
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Joined: 05/17/10
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Username Protected wrote: which is probably why you have a burr under your saddle. Probably why there are 28 likes here viewtopic.php?p=2932457#p2932457
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 01 Nov 2021, 21:48 |
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Username Protected wrote: I like to do two things, talk about airplanes and debate. I often take the weak side of an argument just to make it a debate. Nice that mainly in 1 thread now that is easy to tune out.
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Post subject: Re: Aircraft inventory levels are critically low. Posted: 01 Nov 2021, 21:49 |
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 8629
Post Likes: +11195
Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: I like to do two things, talk about airplanes and debate. I often take the weak side of an argument just to make it a debate. Nice that mainly in 1 thread now that is easy to tune out.
There’s a Foe button!
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