I am curious abut this, too. My impression is that most are on an engine program and that it costs about $600/hour for a pair. The TBO is 5000 hours (nominally), so that's $3M for a pair over a TBO period.


The engine major work ecosystem is closed. It is Pratt and Standard Aero and I don't think anyone else can do PW500 series major work. SA does what Pratt wants.

For example, I don't think you can HSI and fly past TBO like you can with JT15D.


Could be, a question will be what an HSI costs to get past 2500 hours.


Encore and CJ4 are really quite different aircraft.

CJ4 will be single pilot without SPE. Encore has TRs. For example.


Some insurers require sim only, but you can often ask for in aircraft.

I alternate between sim and in aircraft. Each provides benefits. My initial insurance wanted sim only, but they have approved all in aircraft training I have asked for.

Mike C.

Yes, it does.

Heavy, unreliable, costly to repair, limited features.

The winning hand here is G700TXi panels if/when Garmin gets an AP to go with it. You might drop 400+ pounds.


TBO Extension has been hawking its wares for a while on JT15D. They wanted to sell me their STC. But as a part 91 operator, I don't need an STC to fly past TBO, just do HSI and keep flying.

Given the PW535 extension is basically the same thing, another HSI period before OH, a part 91 operator can do the same thing without TBO Extension. The key is finding a way to get an HSI done for a past TBO engine. I was under the impression Pratt (and SA) wouldn't do that, but if they will, then that opens up 7500 hours of usage before OH. That would be nice.

TBO Extension will tell you you need their STC to fly past TBO but that is not true per FAA.

Mike C.

Who is the provider of the HSI that is presumably still required by the TBO Extension? Does Pratt and/or SA do it on their behalf in the presence of an STC that they would not do for an operator without an STC?

While I understand the alure of operating off program, just avoiding dealing with Pratt and Whitney is ample reason, what I do not understand is how an operator can possibly make the math work on an aircraft like an Encore.

The reality is that if you try to operate past TBO, you have three problems, the aircraft’s value plummets, it will be difficult to liquidate at any price and if you have an engine issue, you’ll go from a losing propostion to a financial disaster.

I just can’t see someone who is savvy enough to have $3M+ in cash to buy the airplane (no financing) taking that kind of risk.

It makes a lot more sense to buy a program airplane, fly it a few thousand hours and sell it for what you paid for it. (assuming the market stays the same as it is now)

Banks will loan on an Encore off program.

But I agree. Personally i like programs and would not want to own a jet off program. That would stress me out.

The only scenario that it might make sense is with a plane like my Eagle II after it got engines overhauled on program.

From a business standpoint program cost is insurance and an expense.

Going to look at a Encore+ today and will find out what the current program cost is.

Mike

Anyone know if you can add CPDLC to a 2008 Proline 21 system? I did a
Little research and it seems you need a CMU-4000 but not said if that can be just added to a system of that age?

Seems like I get a lot of re routes when I fly these days and not loving the idea of adding big changes to the FMS manually. Having CPDLC would really simplify that panel in the Encore +

Mike

The FAA CPDLC participation list only shows Garmin G3000/G5000 equipment for the Encore, so I expect not yet for Proline 21. Collins announced earlier this year they would have upgrades for CJ1+, CJ2+, CJ3, CJ4, and XLS+ but no mention of Encore+

Thank you Terry.

That’s back to one of my concerns with the Encore+. It might get left behind.

Although it is very similar to the XLS+ and Cessna did have upgrades for that.

It seems like Cessna is allowing Garmin to come up with these major upgrades to aircraft like the XLS and XLS+ so maybe that’s the best path. If Garmin did come out with a full Garmin panel and AP for the Encore that makes it pretty valuable.

Seems a little risky to buy a plane and have those two dramatically different outcomes. Buy an Encore and then get full Garmin upgrade and you look like a hero. Get one and
It gets passed up on upgrades and you are an idiot. Haha

Mike

I’ve had CPDLC in the PC-24 for the last two years and practically speaking, I’ve found that controllers only consistently use it for frequency changes and it’s always a “Contact” vs a “Monitor” message which means you are still required to check in on the new frequency. I’ve found controllers will use CPDLC in about 2 out of 10 altitude changes and route changes. However, when controllers do use it, it saves workload and errors. I’m sure frequency of use will only increase.

For now, CPDLC is a nice to have but not a game changer.

Jesse for the win.

If you are considering owning a Citation, CJP is the biggest repository of ownership information you will find on the planet. They are very serious about advocating and informing the owner/operators that are in their membership.

It's $500 annually. And the tangible benefits for owners are well beyond $500.

Not to mention that their "events" are pretty amazing. No other owner/pilot group even comes close when it comes to CJP regional events, gatherings, and the annual convention.

CJP is great. I have been a member for many years. It’s not as busy there as here. I also couldn’t find an Encore thread there. Which maybe I should have create one. Haha.

Just got back from looking at a Encore+. Pretty impressive. Program is $275 a side. Pretty close to what I am paying Williams. Although I don’t think the PW program is as extensive as the Williams.

The Encore feels like a small real jet. Big nice wing, air stairs, single point fueling, TR’s, trailing link gear, etc.. feels heavy duty for sore.

I think it’s pretty good value for what you get.

Mike

That’s probably for Silver lite? I thought ESP Gold would be quite a bit more.

I'm on ESP Platinum (Which is Gold plus it covers corrosion and inspections) in the Phenom 100 and it is I believe $310 an hour per side for 2026.

Chip-