Agreed, but if we are assuming well trained pilots, I get one for the SP operation as well and then I think the risk is minimal.

From my perspective, the question is not so much if 2 crew is safer than SP in a jet, but is SP in a jet safer than SP in a turboprop. I think the answer to that one is easy.

Mike C.

40% said they comply on the *survey*.

The number who actually comply is MUCH less.

Mike C.

Yep. The risks of poor CRM can be mitigated by flying SP. But SP will never be better safety wise vs 2 pilots that are trained and follow CRM excellence.

I had an SIC turn off my AC and radios entering IMC at night departing KMDW. He was trying to turn off the igniters. Poor design by Cessna. He had no business per CRM turning off my igniters. Terrible CRM discipline. It could have been prevented by being SP but that's like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Do I think SP is safe in a jet? Yep. Especially compared to any non jet aircraft. More capability, more reliability etc. If you are prone to helmet fire will you be worse off in a jet? You are likely to die regardless so what does it matter? (To quote HRC) You are also more likely to be more experienced and more practiced in a jet. That makes you less likely to have helmet fire.


Rapid decompression is certainly a bigger risk in a jet given higher operating altitudes. But ironically SP would be safer above FL360 than a two pilot crew. You are already wearing a mask if SP...right? You do wear a mask SP 36 & above SP don't you?

My mask is plugged in and ready during all but low level flights. In addition to pressurization problems I see it as a big help in case you would have a bad smoke in cockpit problem. Have goggles for that to at the ready.

Murphy is a prick and you have to try and cut him off at the pass.

Agreed, but if we are assuming well trained pilots, I get one for the SP operation as well and then I think the risk is minimal.

From my perspective, the question is not so much if 2 crew is safer than SP in a jet, but is SP in a jet safer than SP in a turboprop. I think the answer to that one is easy.

Mike C.

Do not tell the EPPS sales team who told you this truth. I will have to sleep with one eye open if you do


Btw....easy to get busted for this issue. Feds observe a flight at an oxygen altitude. Ramp check. Single pilot observed. Check the oxygen system. Too full? Bust. Just sayin'.

They can also check log entires for oxygen refills vs trips taken at altitude in a know SP operation.

Bruce here will sell you a glass Commander 1000 that does FL350 and goes 2000nm, Jason. No masks needed...

When is the last time a CJ or Phenom had "rapid decompression"? With 2 pilots on board is it ASSUMED only 1 would pass out?

Yep...and I speak to that specifically in my reply. I believe jets are safer SP than any other personal transportation class aircraft. [/quote]

Apologize if I cut the quotes wrong, but I am not sure that jet pilots flying SETP's are statistically any less safe than jet pilots flying small jets. Review of the SETP accident record almost invariably demonstrates a fully functioning plane that the less than fully functioning pilot accompanied to the scene of the accident. I am sure this pilot of a CJ1 thought he was safer in his CJ1... but he wasn't. I would have safely gotten him and his beautiful wife to Phoenix that day, if they would be willing to slum it in my lowly SETP.

http://aviation-safety.net/database/rec ... 20160118-0

The record of single pilot jets is 5X worse than the record of 2 crew similar sized jets. Can't remember where that study came from. But all jet accidents occur with type rated pilots that have to at least once a year demonstrate that they can fly to ATP standards. Most SETP or even METP accidents occur with pilots that are purposefully or non-purposely doing stupid stuff. So the statistics are clear as mud. I would make the case that if SETP's are flown by ATP skilled pilots, in a pro-minded fashion, the accident rate would simply be statistical noise.

Widely believed, but not true.

The "Diluter Demand" mask on all jets will supply very little, if any, O2 on normal flights. So, when you put it on and use it UNDER NORMAL CONDITIONS, you're breathing almost entirely cabin air.

Lots of violations filed by ignorant inspectors, but probably no enforcement.

Ah, you don't read much do you? Might want to read the FARs one day. Pay particular attention to 91.211(b)(1)ii.

I have no doubt it may not be complied with 100%. But I can't imagine someone having "flown many SP jets" and presumably at least some of the associated training not having a clue that requirement exists.

Feds can bust you on any flight for something.

Do you have any evidence this actually occurs?


I've never logged oxygen refills, nor had any mechanic log it. Either we are all doing it wrong, or oxygen refills are not required to be logged.

Mike C.

Can you load the PC24 with a forklift ?
Does it come with an APU?

In the long run, they'll probably sell more 'flex' interiors than the dolled up executive cabins.

Why would a second pilot have a greater chance then the first?

It seems like the per pilot chance is independent, so the best you can do is double your chances with two pilots trying to get a mask on.

The quick don masks are pretty fast and effective.


Nearly all the fatals from cabin depressurization are not rapid, but insidious slow events that overtake the crew apparently without them becoming aware.

I can't think of ONE case of rapid decomp in GA that lead to a fatal accident. Surely they exist, anyone got an example?

Mike C.