BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Oct 2011, 19:33

Username Protected wrote:

I flew my friends PC12 down here to FXE yesterday for the boat show. Beautiful bird. I love is airplane.

But.......

I came down at 25k' and ATC vectored me all the way down the west side of the state and stuck me behind a slow king air. I could've made it down here just as fast in my Bo going vfr at 13.5k' at a fraction of the cost.

Look at this craziness. I flew out of pdk but filed out of Macon. I like to depart atlanta by flying under the bravo and picking up clearence south of town as a climb.

You can see over Tampa I finally had enough, dropped to 17.5k' and took it the rest of the way vfr. But then I was burning lots of gas. You can't win dealing with ATC.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N229NG

Thread creep, since you mentioned Boat Show!.....I hear Banyon's ramp volume (KXFE) is way down on turbines for the Boat show over the past. To add to the pain, most are only overnighters suggesting they are owners checking on their listings. I was at the Boat Show yesterday and I was pretty sure the seroius traffic I saw was mostly sellers pacing.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Oct 2011, 21:58

Username Protected wrote:

I could've made it down here just as fast in my Bo going vfr at 13.5k' at a fraction of the cost.

It takes just under 3 hrs and 50 gal from PDK to APF at 185 kts with no wind. I did it Wed and every month before for the last seven.

No way you would make it from MCN to Ft.L in 2 in a Bo. Oh yeah, besides, you're flying turbine goodness in front of a beautiful aluminum tube built of anally retentive Swiss craftsmanship. Mmmmm Pilatoos.

Nick

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Oct 2011, 22:13

Username Protected wrote:

...beautiful aluminum tube built of anally retentive Swiss craftsmanship. Mmmmm Pilatoos.

Nick

They seem to perform well but I just can't see them as beautiful. They remind of something out of Monty Python. Awkward looking.

Sorry for thread drift, Piper Altaire also a cartoon character - just not sure which...

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2011, 08:07

Username Protected wrote:

I could've made it down here just as fast in my Bo going vfr at 13.5k' at a fraction of the cost.

It takes just under 3 hrs and 50 gal from PDK to APF at 185 kts with no wind. I did it Wed and every month before for the last seven.

No way you would make it from MCN to Ft.L in 2 in a Bo. Oh yeah, besides, you're flying turbine goodness in front of a beautiful aluminum tube built of anally retentive Swiss craftsmanship. Mmmmm Pilatoos.

Nick

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2011, 09:31

Username Protected wrote:

I flew my friends PC12 down here to FXE yesterday for the boat show. Beautiful bird. I love is airplane.

But.......

I came down at 25k' and ATC vectored me all the way down the west side of the state and stuck me behind a slow king air. I could've made it down here just as fast in my Bo going vfr at 13.5k' at a fraction of the cost.

Look at this craziness. I flew out of pdk but filed out of Macon. I like to depart atlanta by flying under the bravo and picking up clearence south of town as a climb.

You can see over Tampa I finally had enough, dropped to 17.5k' and took it the rest of the way vfr. But then I was burning lots of gas. You can't win dealing with ATC.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N229NG

Typical FL ATC. When my brother had his Malibu JetProp we always got restricted climbs and mandatory early decents in Central and S Florida. Very ineffient. Another friend flew a P-Baron and complained constantly to ATC about being held low.

Even in my NA Bonanza, as soon as you hit PHK southbound, you can plan on a decent to 2000 over the 'glades for many more miles whether you are flying into PBI, BCT, FLL, FXE of OPF. PITA

Hope everyone has a nice time at the boat show. Looks like the weather is clearing to the east.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2011, 09:34

And that's my point. The only reason I'm finding to step up to turbine is comfort and not speed. Yeah, the plane is faster but I'm never flying direct to destination in a straight line. Where as in my Bonanza, 95% of my flights are vfr direct.

I want a plane that can do 220 at 10k'.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2011, 10:25

When you find one, let me know. But it has to be something that I don't have to strap on......like a Mooney.

In the meantime, light jets and turboprops are on the short end of the stick. Either they are too slow, have limited climb above 20k, or can't effectively fly in the flight levels. Or, they suck too much gas when kept down low in order to be separated from the "real" turbine traffic.

Flying in the high teens/mid-20's is great if you are not in a terminal area. Not much traffic at all. But once you are, get ready to be treated like the other FLIBs on the arrival. At least here in the SE. PDK is a great example.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2011, 10:43

Username Protected wrote:

I want a plane that can do 220 at 10k'.

Maybe when deltahawk gets their engines certified..

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2011, 10:49

Username Protected wrote:

I want a plane that can do 220 at 10k'.

Maybe when deltahawk gets their engines certified..

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2011, 11:23

Username Protected wrote:

I flew my friends PC12 down here to FXE yesterday for the boat show. Beautiful bird. I love is airplane.

But.......

I came down at 25k' and ATC vectored me all the way down the west side of the state and stuck me behind a slow king air. I could've made it down here just as fast in my Bo going vfr at 13.5k' at a fraction of the cost.

Look at this craziness. I flew out of pdk but filed out of Macon. I like to depart atlanta by flying under the bravo and picking up clearence south of town as a climb.

You can see over Tampa I finally had enough, dropped to 17.5k' and took it the rest of the way vfr. But then I was burning lots of gas. You can't win dealing with ATC.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N229NG

What a strong argument for the G36 or even a new Cirrus.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2011, 12:09

Username Protected wrote:

I flew my friends PC12 down here to FXE yesterday for the boat show. Beautiful bird. I love is airplane.

But.......

I came down at 25k' and ATC vectored me all the way down the west side of the state and stuck me behind a slow king air. I could've made it down here just as fast in my Bo going vfr at 13.5k' at a fraction of the cost.

Look at this craziness. I flew out of pdk but filed out of Macon. I like to depart atlanta by flying under the bravo and picking up clearence south of town as a climb.

You can see over Tampa I finally had enough, dropped to 17.5k' and took it the rest of the way vfr. But then I was burning lots of gas. You can't win dealing with ATC.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N229NG

That routing, coming down over Georgia/Alabama, is normal. The arrivals for turbine a/c going into the FLL/MIA area come over St. Pete, down to RSW, then across the everglades, into whichever field you're going to.

They weren't picking on you. ATC has us down to about 6000', 50 miles west of FLL. It's just the way it is.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2011, 12:14

I kick the turbine idea around all the time. I keep reminding myself it's a totally different world than what I really enjoy. You live at 25,000 feet.

Small GA is all about freedom and the journey. Turbine is about comfort and getting there faster. Maybe we have to watch out for what we wish for.

I want the smoothness and reliability that a turbine offers. Piston GA is controlled by the lower horsepower offerings. It's going to take a new deisel to get our 220 knot cake and eat it too.

On the other hand, the new G58 TC may get close for door to door speeds of a turbine, especially with the ability to go lower and VFR direct. It's half the price (or less) of a turbine and a lot less operating costs. Maybe there is demand for a really high priced, faster piston?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2011, 17:37

Username Protected wrote:

That routing, coming down over Georgia/Alabama, is normal. The arrivals for turbine a/c going into the FLL/MIA area come over St. Pete, down to RSW, then across the everglades, into whichever field you're going to.

They weren't picking on you. ATC has us down to about 6000', 50 miles west of FLL. It's just the way it is.

I wasn't implying that I was being picked on. I'm sure it's normal. But like I said, that routing just took all the speed benefit of a turbine and threw it out the window. what good is the speed if they make me turn in the opposite direction of my destination because I have a slower plane in front of me?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Oct 2011, 17:39

Username Protected wrote:

On the other hand, the new G58 TC may get close for door to door speeds of a turbine, especially with the ability to go lower and VFR direct. It's half the price (or less) of a turbine and a lot less operating costs. Maybe there is demand for a really high priced, faster piston?

Yes. Or if tat would get their new system together for the b58 I think we'd be there.