441 has a Phase 2/3 light year and a Phase 2/3/D heavy year, repeat. Neither are very expensive for this class. There are corrosion inspections that are on a longer cycle that you do with each of those as they are due, for most private use they are on a calendar cycle.

It's a little wider also if it has the National Flight wingtips, 50'8" IIRC. However it will still fit in a sub 50' door, it just takes more work. We put one in a 49'6" door for about eight months until the new hangar was built..

Well Jay, my take on today’s message, for example, is that, in general, it’s somehow easier to get into the cockpit of a Citation or other plane than a Commander. The truth is that if it’s not already configured, and especially with Garmin panels, it’s easy to make a Commander something you can walk into without leaping a quadrant like most Citations, etc. The Commander is about the only plane I can think of that has headroom for 6’8” and the ability to slide the seat so far back you can’t touch the rudder pedals. I’m not saying they are all so configured, but hey, there’s a pic of a rare G950 panel with the long quadrant. Anyway, I wish I had time for it. Everyone’s got their opinions which is great and makes for fun reading.

Well Jay, my take on today’s message, for example, is that, in general, it’s somehow easier to get into the cockpit of a Citation or other plane than a Commander. The truth is that if it’s not already configured, and especially with Garmin panels, it’s easy to make a Commander something you can walk into without leaping a quadrant like most Citations, etc. The Commander is about the only plane I can think of that has headroom for 6’8” and the ability to slide the seat so far back you can’t touch the rudder pedals. I’m not saying they are all so configured, but hey, there’s a pic of a rare G950 panel with the long quadrant. Anyway, I wish I had time for it. Everyone’s got their opinions which is great and makes for fun reading.

For a 331 guy, the fact that the computers have control of the fuel flow is interesting and somewhat unique to the 441. I was told by engine shop guys many years ago about the failure modes and it stuck with me. That never stopped me from doing post overhaul flight checks in a couple while they play with all the parameters with a magic box plugged in. And in no way am I current on the plane.

Cessna got it mostly right with the 441, it’s a hell of a plane, and I wish Beech did as well with their installation of the 331.

Some light reading;

https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/in ... 200300458/

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... Append.pdf

https://www.baaa-acro.com/crash/crash-c ... i-lakeland

People used to pay extra for that. The longer the pedestal, the better! More toys!

The 441 factory inspection program isn't terribly owner friendly.

Phase 2 every 100 hours, 12 months. Very light.

Phase 3 every 200 hours, 12 months. Fairly intensive.

Phase 4, 5, 6, 7 every 600 hours, 24 months. Moderately intensive.

The usual plan is:

At 100 hours: accomplish Phase 2.
At 200 hours: accomplish Phases 2, 3.
At 300 hours: accomplish Phase 2.
At 400 hours: accomplish Phases 2, 3.
At 500 hours: accomplish Phase 2.
At 600 hours: accomplish Phases 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.

For a 150 hours per year flyer, which was my typical when I owned the MU2, so a very normal usage, the plan kind of sucks.

You will get 100 hours, 8 months into it and have to phase 2. But then just 4 months later, phase 3 is due because of 12 month time. So net, you are in the shop every 75 hours and about every 6 months. The phase 2, though, is very light, so might be 1 day to get done. Mostly some basic checks of fluids, oils, brushes, tires, no big issues.

Net result is that you have an annual inspection every 12 months, basically. If you fly 200 hours/year, same thing, no change but with a light phase 2 mid year. If you fly 100 hours/year, then you don't have the mid year phase 2 checkup.

Note that phases 4, 5, 6, 7 are due in 24 months, so a 150 hour flyer will net only 300 hours before they are due.

Those are the regular inspections, then there are a bunch of other inspections for little things.

There are also a large number of SIDs that trigger at various hours, cycles, and time. These are invasive, expensive, and not clearly indicated as necessary. Cessna imposed them unilaterally and I believe without adequate justification. You may occasionally find a 441 maintained under MM rev 15 which lacked the SIDs, but the FAA opines when you buy the plane, you have to select the current MM revision, and thus the SIDs come back in. It's a mess.

I do not believe there is a 441 LUMP (low utilization maintenance program) from Textron, but it may be worth asking. I have that on my Citation and it dramatically reduces my inspections, basically can go 3 years between "real" inspections, and 6 years for the heavy phase 5.

At one time, Bacon Aviation did offer a LUIP (low utilization inspection program) for the 441. I don't know what that involved and what value it had. It is not listed on their website any more, so maybe they've dropped it. LUIP will require FSDO approval, and that seems to vary with which office district you are in.

Overall, we hugely over inspect our planes and that causes more problems than it solves. The FAA has the mindset that maintenance is always error free, and OEMs wants you to do more inspections than less, so that's where we end up.

Mike C.

The 441 factory inspection program isn't terribly owner friendly.

Phase 2 every 100 hours, 12 months. Very light.

Phase 3 every 200 hours, 12 months. Fairly intensive.

Phase 4, 5, 6, 7 every 600 hours, 24 months. Moderately intensive.

The usual plan is:

At 100 hours: accomplish Phase 2.
At 200 hours: accomplish Phases 2, 3.
At 300 hours: accomplish Phase 2.
At 400 hours: accomplish Phases 2, 3.
At 500 hours: accomplish Phase 2.
At 600 hours: accomplish Phases 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.

For a 150 hours per year flyer, which was my typical when I owned the MU2, so a very normal usage, the plan kind of sucks.

You will get 100 hours, 8 months into it and have to phase 2. But then just 4 months later, phase 3 is due because of 12 month time. So net, you are in the shop every 75 hours and about every 6 months. The phase 2, though, is very light, so might be 1 day to get done. Mostly some basic checks of fluids, oils, brushes, tires, no big issues.

Net result is that you have an annual inspection every 12 months, basically. If you fly 200 hours/year, same thing, no change but with a light phase 2 mid year. If you fly 100 hours/year, then you don't have the mid year phase 2 checkup.

Note that phases 4, 5, 6, 7 are due in 24 months, so a 150 hour flyer will net only 300 hours before they are due.

Those are the regular inspections, then there are a bunch of other inspections for little things.

There are also a large number of SIDs that trigger at various hours, cycles, and time. These are invasive, expensive, and not clearly indicated as necessary. Cessna imposed them unilaterally and I believe without adequate justification. You may occasionally find a 441 maintained under MM rev 15 which lacked the SIDs, but the FAA opines when you buy the plane, you have to select the current MM revision, and thus the SIDs come back in. It's a mess.

I do not believe there is a 441 LUMP (low utilization maintenance program) from Textron, but it may be worth asking. I have that on my Citation and it dramatically reduces my inspections, basically can go 3 years between "real" inspections, and 6 years for the heavy phase 5.

At one time, Bacon Aviation did offer a LUIP (low utilization inspection program) for the 441. I don't know what that involved and what value it had. It is not listed on their website any more, so maybe they've dropped it. LUIP will require FSDO approval, and that seems to vary with which office district you are in.

Overall, we hugely over inspect our planes and that causes more problems than it solves. The FAA has the mindset that maintenance is always error free, and OEMs wants you to do more inspections than less, so that's where we end up.

Mike C.

Phase 3 seems more than minor with about 120 tasks to accomplish. One of them is "wing structure", which doesn't sound minor.

I have a copy of MM rev 16, chapter 5 on inspections and it is 495 pages long by itself. Most of the task descriptions are in other chapters, too.

For comparison, my Citation V MM chapter 5 is only 146 pages long.

Cessna sure did punish the 441 with a lot of inspections. I believe nearly zero issues are found despite all the effort put into that.

Mike C.

For a 331 guy, the fact that the computers have control of the fuel flow is interesting and somewhat unique to the 441. I was told by engine shop guys many years ago about the failure modes and it stuck with me. That never stopped me from doing post overhaul flight checks in a couple while they play with all the parameters with a magic box plugged in. And in no way am I current on the plane.

Cessna got it mostly right with the 441, it’s a hell of a plane, and I wish Beech did as well with their installation of the 331.

Some light reading;

https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/in ... 200300458/

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... Append.pdf

https://www.baaa-acro.com/crash/crash-c ... i-lakeland

Advantage TBM. The boots come off with the leading edges.

Commander is 150hr and/or annual. So if you fly 150 hrs a year, it's one major maintenance event. Also a 5 year gear overhaul. While I would love it to be 200 hours, the maintenance schedule is pretty easy for a non-business use airplane.

It should be noted that part 91 operators are not required to do overhauls. They are only required to do inspections. This is true even if the overhaul is called for in the factory program. An inspection checks for airworthiness. An overhaul adds new life.

Taking apart the gear every 5 years is excessive and elevates the risk of maintenance induced failures (MIFs).

Mike C.

I'm not shure about the wording for the Commanders gear overhaul, because I think a vast majority of them are part 91, but they all seem to have to do them somehow.

I had to fight with my service center about overhauling and grinding down brand new Hartzell props (with about 100hrs on them) after the 6 year inspection time.

The rules don't require "overhaul".


The MU2 program says to overhaul props every 5 years. These are Hartzell props.

I went 10+ years. Props were fine, basically all parts passed. Most prop blades are scrapped due to failing dimensional tolerance which comes from repeated grinding during overhaul. In other words, the overhaul causes more wear than the use.

Mike C.