06 Jul 2025, 09:20 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Tecnam P2012 Traveller  Posted: 05 Feb 2021, 21:08 |
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Joined: 10/18/11
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Aircraft: Seabee Aerostar 700
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It is designed around the next generation of 400 hp diesels when they become available. they know what the new diesels will weigh and are designed to take the weight etc. and then they will use Jet A.
there are a number of aircraft out there that are designed for the new diesels that are now operating with 100 LL engines or have turbines installed for the time being.
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Post subject: Re: Tecnam P2012 Traveller Posted: 06 Feb 2021, 22:25 |
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Joined: 03/13/13
Posts: 1676
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Location: Conroe, TX
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This might be an airplane that is enough different make bring to light some niches that are not presently in view.
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Post subject: Re: Tecnam P2012 Traveller Posted: 11 Mar 2021, 12:23 |
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Joined: 11/30/18
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Location: NH
Aircraft: F33A, 757/767
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Username Protected wrote: Anyone have an idea how quickly CapeAir is planning to roll the fleet over?
I am curious when i will see one around Boston.
Tim Seems like they are mostly flying out west right now, but I have seen a few in BOS. They'll probably roll the fleet over as fast as they can.
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Post subject: Re: Tecnam P2012 Traveller Posted: 11 Mar 2021, 13:52 |
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Joined: 03/28/17
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Location: N. California
Aircraft: C-182
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Username Protected wrote: They have 25 others sold to operators other than Cape Air. There are also a lot of Islanders in the world that are going to need replacing soon that the P2012 will be perfect for.
Turbines are good, but there are some missions that they just aren't suited for. Speaking of "Islanders" The Britten-Norman Islander was a popular commuter in the 70's in the Bay Area, fixed gear and all, even a 3-engine version, but they faded away. Edit: The Twin Otter was in use as a short haul commuter too , but probably not very economical operating costs, but rugged.
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Last edited on 11 Mar 2021, 15:35, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: Tecnam P2012 Traveller Posted: 11 Mar 2021, 14:53 |
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Joined: 12/17/13
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Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
Aircraft: Aerostar Superstar 2
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Username Protected wrote: Will it fly on one engine loaded with passengers? Prob couldn't get certified otherwise. Above 6000lbs you need to be able to show OEI climb at SL, as I recall it.
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Post subject: Re: Tecnam P2012 Traveller Posted: 11 Mar 2021, 14:56 |
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Joined: 07/29/17
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Username Protected wrote: Speaking of "Islanders" The Britten-Norman Islander was a popular commuter in the 70's in the Bay Area, fixed gear and all, even a 3-engine version, but they faded away. New England Airlines has 3 and still flies them 5-11 times a day on the < 10 minute flight from Westerly RI out to Block Island.
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Post subject: Re: Tecnam P2012 Traveller Posted: 11 Mar 2021, 15:05 |
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Joined: 01/22/19
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Location: KPMP
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Username Protected wrote: They have 25 others sold to operators other than Cape Air. There are also a lot of Islanders in the world that are going to need replacing soon that the P2012 will be perfect for.
Turbines are good, but there are some missions that they just aren't suited for. Speaking of "Islanders" The Britten-Norman Islander was a popular commuter in the 70's in the Bay Area, fixed gear and all, even a 3-engine version, but they faded away.
Undaunted by aerodynamic reality, the design team at Pilatus/Britten-Norman has announced plans for the BN2-XL (Extra Loud), promising more noise, reduced payload, a lower cruise speed, and increased pilot workload.
We spoke to Mr. Fred Gribble, former British Rail boilermaker and now Chief Project Engineer. Fred was responsible for developing many original and creative design flaws in the service of his former employer, and assures he will be incorporating these in the new BN2-XL technology under a licensing agreement.
Fred reassured BN-2 pilots however that all fundamental design flaws of the original model had been retained. Further good news is that the XL version is available as a retrofit.
Among the new measures is that of locking the ailerons in the central position, following airborne and simulator tests which showed that whilst pilots of average strength were able to achieve up to 30° of control wheel deflection, this produced no appreciable variation in the net flight path of the aircraft.
Thus the removal of costly and unnecessary linkages has been possible, and the rudder has been nominated as the primary directional control. In keeping with this new philosophy, but to retain commonality for crews transitioning to the XL, additional resistance to foot pressure has been built into the rudder pedals to prevent overcontrolling in gusty conditions (defined as those in which wind velocity exceeds 3 knots).
An outstanding feature of Islander technology has always been the adaptation of the 0-540 engine, which mounted in any other aircraft in the free world (except the Trislander) is known for its low vibration levels, so as to cause it to shake and batter the airframe, gradually crystallise the main spar, desynchronise the accompanying engine, and simulate the sound of fifty skeletons fornicating in an aluminium dustbin.
Britten-Norman will not disclose the technology they applied in enhancing this effect in the XL, but Mr. Gribble assures us it will be perpetuated in later models and sees it as a strong selling point; "After all, the Concorde makes a lot of noise," he said, "and look how fast it goes."
However, design documents clandestinely recovered from the Britten-Norman shredder have solved a question that has puzzled aerodynamicists and pilots for many years, disclosing that it is actually noise which causes the BN-2 to fly. The vibration set up by the engines and amplified by the airframe, in turn causes the air molecules above the wing to oscillate at atomic frequency, reducing their density and causing lift. This can be demonstrated by sudden closure of the throttles, which causes the aircraft to fall from the sky. As a result, lift is proportional to noise rather than speed, explaining amongst other things the aircraft's remarkable takeoff performance. In the driver's cab (as Gribble describes it), ergonomic measures will ensure that long-term PBN pilots' deafness does not cause inflight dozing. Orthopaedic surgeons have designed a cockpit layout and seat to maximise backache, enroute insomnia, chronic irritability, and terminal (post-flight) lethargy. Redesigned 'bullworker' elastic aileron cables, now disconnected from the control surfaces, increase pilot workload and fitness.
Special noise retention cabin lining is an innovation on the XL, and it is hoped in later models to develop cabin noise to a level which will enable pilots to relate ear pain directly to engine power, eliminating the need for engine instruments altogether.
We were offered an opportunity to fly the XL at Britten-Normans' developmental facility, adjacent to the Britrail tea rooms at Little Chortling. (The flight was originally to have been conducted at the Pilatus plant, but aircraft of Britten-Norman design are now prohibited from operating in Swiss airspace during the avalanche season). For our mission profile, the XL was loaded with fossil fuel for a standard 100 nm with Britrail reserves, carrying one pilot and nine passengers to maximise discomfort.
Passenger loading is unchanged, the normal under-wing protrusions inflicting serious lacerations on 71% of boarding passengers, and there was the usual entertaining confusion in selecting a door appropriate to the allocated seat.
The facility for the clothing of embarking passengers to remove oil slicks from engine cowls during loading has also been thoughtfully retained. Startup is standard, and taxying, as in the BN-2, is accomplished by brute force. Takeoff calculations called for a 250 decibel power setting, and the rotation force for the (neutral) C of G was calculated as 180ft/lbs of back pressure.
Initial warning of an engine failure during takeoff is provided by a reduction in flight instrument panel vibration. Complete seizure of one engine is indicated by the momentary illusion that the engines have suddenly and inexplicably become synchronised. Otherwise, identification of the failed engine is achieved by comparing the vibration levels of the windows on either side of the cabin. (Relative passenger pallor has been found to be an unreliable guide on many BN-2 routes because of ethnic considerations).
Shortly after takeoff the XL's chief test pilot, Capt. "Muscles" Mulligan, demonstrated the extent to which modem aeronautical design has left the BN-2 untouched; he simulated pilot incapacitation by slumping forward onto the control column, simultaneously applying full right rudder and bleeding from the ears. The XL, like its predecessor, demonstrated total control rigidity and continued undisturbed.
Power was then reduced to 249 decibels for cruise, and we carried out some comparisons of actual flight performance with graph predictions. At 5000' and ISA, we achieved a vibration amplitude of 500 CPS and 240 decibels, for a fuel flow of 210 lb/hr, making the BN-2 XL the most efficient converter of fuel to noise since the Titan rocket.
Exploring the constant noise-variable speed and constant speed-variable noise concepts, we found that in a VNE dive, vibration reached its design maximum at 1000 CPS, at which point the limiting factor is the emulsification of human tissue. The catatonic condition of long term BN-2 pilots is attributed to this syndrome, which commences in the cerebral cortex and spreads outwards. We asked Capt. Mulligan what he considered the outstanding features of the XL. He cupped his hand behind his car and shouted. "Whazzat?" We returned to Britten-Norman field convinced that the XL model retains the marque's most memorable features, while showing some significant and worthwhile regressions.
Pilatus/Britten-Norman are however not resting on their laurels. Plans are already advanced for the three-engined Trislander XL, and noise tunnel testing has commenced. The basis of preliminary design and performance specifications is that lift increases as the square of noise, and as the principle of acoustic lift is further developed, a later five-engined vertical takeoff model is another possibility.
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Post subject: Re: Tecnam P2012 Traveller Posted: 11 Mar 2021, 20:01 |
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Joined: 01/16/11
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Username Protected wrote: Will it fly on one engine loaded with passengers? Prob couldn't get certified otherwise. Above 6000lbs you need to be able to show OEI climb at SL, as I recall it.
piston twin, legs dangling, smallish engines, yeeeshhh, I believe you man!!!
Next thing you know, you'll be telling me that the Avanti is making a comeback!!!
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Post subject: Re: Tecnam P2012 Traveller Posted: 12 Mar 2021, 00:25 |
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Joined: 11/06/10
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Company: Looking
Location: Outside Boston, or some hotel somewhere
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Username Protected wrote: piston twin, legs dangling, smallish engines, yeeeshhh, I believe you man!!!
Next thing you know, you'll be telling me that the Avanti is making a comeback!!! I thought the company announced some largish deal recently. Or maybe it was just an old press release. Tim
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Post subject: Re: Tecnam P2012 Traveller Posted: 12 Mar 2021, 08:04 |
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Joined: 11/30/18
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Location: NH
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Given the type of flying that Cape Air does, they have an amazing safety record. Airline was started in 1989, and they have had zero fatalities.
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Post subject: Re: Tecnam P2012 Traveller Posted: 12 Mar 2021, 08:44 |
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Username Protected wrote: Given the type of flying that Cape Air does, they have an amazing safety record. Airline was started in 1989, and they have had zero fatalities. Maybe zero passenger fatalities? I thought they lost a pilot in a crash.
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