yes, agreed, somehow that stuff is hard to classify..

how do you classify such accidents, if they could have been prevented, when all a crew had to do to prevent it, is, what is tought to a PPL student during his or her first flight lesson..??

I mean, we are talking basics..what do you want to write new into rules to prevent that..?

in this regard one could classify those accidents as "outliers.."

if a chief pilot of an outfit flying such aircraft has to remind his folks to do correct after engine start, taxi and pre take-off checklists…his folks may think he is either ready for the looney bin, because of too much of an obsessive compulsive behavioral pattern, or if he is right, you would have to close the outfit..

what lessons are there to learn…?

how do you fight complacency?

have we achieved such a high level of safety that the industry now is becoming a victim of it's own success, that we have to even think about such basics?

maybe?

send a bunch of pilots into preventive group therapy every week…?

is it a general problem in our societies today, that rules are not followed..?

do we have too many smartphones in this world so that a major part of the population has acquired attention deficit syndrome…? maybe...

I am at a loss in that regard how to classify or explain such accidents...

Ultimately, most accidents fit this category.

Mike C.

I was pretty unhappy with the Apex when I first got the PC12 because it had a lot of shortcomings such as needing to buy a new laptop and have a background codebreaking in order to update the NavData. But now they've fixed it. Now I like the Apex but it's still just "meat and potatoes". It's basic compared to the Garmin stuff. Build 10 is now out (2 years late) and it updates a lot of the Apex with the whiz bang stuff Garmin has..... But now Garmin has touchscreen etc. Synthetic vision upgrade for the Apex has come down to only $70K. Used be $100K.

Now all the companies have touchscreen/synthetic vision stuff. The Proline Fusion looks really cool. They'll all end up being the same.

I'll second what Jason says, Apex has grown on me, but for the love of airplanes, why can they not fix the Tafs/Metars is beyond me. I did not know build 10 was out. Will be paying a visit to Epps soon to get that..........

Actually I really like the Apex and I also like the Cursor Control Device, it's become very intuitive to me now.

Frankly the airplane amazes me more every single day. The wife and I were talking about a Jet (either a phenom 300, CJ3/4/Encore) and I think that the PC24 is more airplane than all of them........

Still for 3 times the cost, they just don't get you much more than the PC12...

When it became possible to update the apex in 10 minutes instead of the old way, I really started liking the apex. Once you get use to the system it's really nice to use.

Yep. The risks of poor CRM can be mitigated by flying SP. But SP will never be better safety wise vs 2 pilots that are trained and follow CRM excellence.

I had an SIC turn off my AC and radios entering IMC at night departing KMDW. He was trying to turn off the igniters. Poor design by Cessna. He had no business per CRM turning off my igniters. Terrible CRM discipline. It could have been prevented by being SP but that's like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Do I think SP is safe in a jet? Yep. Especially compared to any non jet aircraft. More capability, more reliability etc. If you are prone to helmet fire will you be worse off in a jet? You are likely to die regardless so what does it matter? (To quote HRC) You are also more likely to be more experienced and more practiced in a jet. That makes you less likely to have helmet fire.


Rapid decompression is certainly a bigger risk in a jet given higher operating altitudes. But ironically SP would be safer above FL360 than a two pilot crew. You are already wearing a mask if SP...right? You do wear a mask SP 36 & above SP don't you?

Without having any experience in jets, it seems to me that operating a piston twin is pretty high workload compared. A jet seems simpler in many ways, which makes it much safer. Piston twins are terrible from a workflow perspective. Took me a good 10 mins to set up the Aerostar in perfect LOP, MP, EGT's, RPM's. And then ATC would give you a climb and you'd have to start all over again...

If true then there goes buying a jet for me. I'm not flying around wearing a mask. I've never heard of this requirement before and flown many SP jets.

CRM is another reason I don't want a 2 pilot airplane. How much time do I need to spend flying around with some other buy practicing CRM?

If true then there goes buying a jet for me. I'm not flying around wearing a mask. I've never heard of this requirement before and flown many SP jets.

When is the last time a CJ or Phenom had "rapid decompression"? With 2 pilots on board is it ASSUMED only 1 would pass out?

When is the last time a CJ or Phenom had "rapid decompression"? With 2 pilots on board is it ASSUMED only 1 would pass out?

If true then there goes buying a jet for me. I'm not flying around wearing a mask. I've never heard of this requirement before and flown many SP jets.

Sounds awesome. Comfy too.

You're not alone. Fully 60% of jet pilots ignore or are unaware of the rule: Study: Pilots Ignore Oxygen Regulations interpret that as you see fit

The jet salesmen never mention it either.