in the CJ2 they creep up pretty fast, I pull them back every 1000' or so -or- like you say, set them well under max but that affects climb rate quite a bit.

After diving into the details, it appears I have misunderstood the proposition. The $6K estimated cost assumed you had your own plane, and thus renting the Klingon has to be considered as part of the equation.

The costs come out to $1500 for instructor, $2000 for examiner, $3000 for the plane (dry), about $3500 for the fuel based on 3-4 hours flight training and 1 hour checkride. Adds up to $10K. If more flight time is needed, hours are about $1300 each extra for fuel and plane.

Training to be done Fri and/or Sat, checkride Sun. Due to instructor (which is Tarver himself) and examiner schedules, things can't slip a day. The examiner doesn't like to do Sun checkrides, so there is even the idea to have the checkride Sat, which would make this a 2 day type rating, which is starting to sound extreme to me.

I did get my multi in two days (though separated by a week, two Sat). But that was with about 8.5 hours training time, 1.5 hours checkride (done at night no less). A type rating feels like an entirely different animal than an ME rating.

Part of me likes the spontaneous and flamboyant idea of doing all this in such a challenging scenario, even despite the mission risk and cost. What a boast: "I got my type rating in 3 days!".

Yet another part of me is looking at the cost, mission risk, my readiness, weather, schedule, and thinking this isn't the proper way to go about getting a type rating. I can go to Simcom for ~$12K and get a full type rating, 14+ hours sim time, in depth ground school, and so forth. Yes, it will involve more days of my time, but truthfully, I wouldn't be ready to fly a Citation after the Kilngon experiment until I invested in more training, so maybe there are no actual days lost.

I have not yet completely decided to not do the Klingon experiment, but in fairness to Tarver and his generous offer, I need to decide soon.

I now seek counsel among the wise here on BT. What say you?

Mike C.

Mike it’s south Florida where all forms of gray area lies in aviation. Most guys I spoke with are about 11k, plus my plane and 5 days so what M2 is offering is a great deal from that stand point and as M2 said it’s a license to learn. I’d still fly with a high time pilot for a period until your really understand the plane. Get your insurance carriers blessing.

You have been kicked this can for a long time, just get it done it’ll be the greatest move you have ever done and you’ll never look back and buy the Ultra too.

And onto more important things how about those Cavs and Pacers

Gary

Not one of the wise ones, but here you go: Don’t do it. It’s a lot of time and money for something of questionable value. Extravagant things cobbled together in a last minute rush don’t seem to turn out well (for me anyway). If you fail, there’s that.

Embrace this part of your personality. Not being negative Mike but you need to exercise this portion more!

Mr. Tarver is offering you a heck of a gift, take him up on it. My guess is you guys will really have a great time and I would bet a great friendship will begin. At the end you will be legal to fly but knowing you, will put a bunch more effort into training before launching single pilot in hard IMC in a busy airspace. Do it MAN!

Oh, and you should dress the flamboyant part too. Don't go showing up in a pair of khakis and a polo shirt. Instead think Liberace.

Mike - MTs offer is very generous. One thing I didn’t understand is who is the instructor?

At any rate, I suggest you bring up the two day initial type rating adventure idea on CJP where you also participate. Most there own and fly these airplanes and you’ll get a well informed and rounded perspective. I looked over the material Michael shared and it’s extremely light on content.

Ask yourself, as easy as a Citation may be to fly, do you want the piece of paper and be able to boast about your two day type rating or do you want to get serious about learning how to operate a Citation? Have you researched everything you will be able learn in a more comprehensive program and what you’ll be able to practice in the sim that you won’t in the plane? Look at the content being covered in both instances.

I and others may not be as gifted as the ones who can absorb this in two days, but I keep going back to FlightSafety for recurrent and find the experience invaluable. Combined with periodic in airplane training it’s a great way to stay safe and proficient.

Andrew Vann and I just spent the last 3 days at FSI with our instructor Mitch Lyons drilling all sorts of emergencies - that’s 1 more day than it would take for this initial type rating experiment.

I’m on FSI’s full service program and for 10K per year, I can go back as many times as I wish for my 61.58s. Whatever you do, good luck. And be sure to attend the CJP convention in San Antonio in October.

After diving into the details, it appears I have misunderstood the proposition. The $6K estimated cost assumed you had your own plane, and thus renting the Klingon has to be considered as part of the equation.

The costs come out to $1500 for instructor, $2000 for examiner, $3000 for the plane (dry), about $3500 for the fuel based on 3-4 hours flight training and 1 hour checkride. Adds up to $10K. If more flight time is needed, hours are about $1300 each extra for fuel and plane.

Training to be done Fri and/or Sat, checkride Sun. Due to instructor (which is Tarver himself) and examiner schedules, things can't slip a day. The examiner doesn't like to do Sun checkrides, so there is even the idea to have the checkride Sat, which would make this a 2 day type rating, which is starting to sound extreme to me.

I did get my multi in two days (though separated by a week, two Sat). But that was with about 8.5 hours training time, 1.5 hours checkride (done at night no less). A type rating feels like an entirely different animal than an ME rating.

Part of me likes the spontaneous and flamboyant idea of doing all this in such a challenging scenario, even despite the mission risk and cost. What a boast: "I got my type rating in 3 days!".

Yet another part of me is looking at the cost, mission risk, my readiness, weather, schedule, and thinking this isn't the proper way to go about getting a type rating. I can go to Simcom for ~$12K and get a full type rating, 14+ hours sim time, in depth ground school, and so forth. Yes, it will involve more days of my time, but truthfully, I wouldn't be ready to fly a Citation after the Kilngon experiment until I invested in more training, so maybe there are no actual days lost.

I have not yet completely decided to not do the Klingon experiment, but in fairness to Tarver and his generous offer, I need to decide soon.

I now seek counsel among the wise here on BT. What say you?

Mike C.

Just re-read this thread. Tarver with less than 100 hours under his belt is now qualified to give you an initial type rating? This Klingon thing must be extremely easy. The offer is very generous, but the word "extreme" doesn't quite capture what is being considered here. I'm surprised to know there are FAA examiners who would even sign up for this.

Just re-read this thread. Tarver with less than 100 hours under his belt is now qualified to give you an initial type rating? This Klingon thing must be extremely easy. The offer is very generous, but the word "extreme" doesn't quite capture what is being considered here. I'm surprised to know there are FAA examiners who would even sign up for this.

I have found this to be different at FSI. Whatever - this is interesting for sure. Would you do this Mark?

Consider an alternative strategy pursued by a BTer Jesse J.

1) Flew three rocker trips with me. Back and forth across the country twice, mulitple legs, real weather, night, IMC, storm avoidance, etc etc 20 hours?

2) got an SIC sign off

3) Did an accelerated type in a SIM at SIMCOM - 7 days, 10k? (because he had an SIC)

4) Stayed at my house, hung out with Blondie - HUGE

5) Did 25 hours with mentor pilot (me and a 121 guy) on real rocker trips...in real weather post type.

6) Got paid around $5k

so he has a full SIM, insurabe type, 40-45 hours in the plane, about 14 days total and he spent maybe $5k. Videos included.

0 turbine time prior. I'd let him fly Blondie anywhere SP at this point....oh wait...maybe not her. He is a stud.


Then again, he doesn't have the advantage of a degree from MIT.

DPE justs tests against the PTS. Checkride never goes over 10,000’ or 50 miles away from airport. Pass or fail DPE gets his $2500.

It is monkey see, monkey do training.

Hi Mark,

That’s not my experience at FSI at SAT. Alex and I have just done a 61.58 over the last three days togeather. Awesome time getting to see each other perform in the SIM, great learning experience for Alex seeing all my mistakes....

Our SIM instructor flys a CJ2+ currently, the gentlemen who took our classes flys a CJ and I had a good chat to the 525 program manager who flys a CJ2 and CJ3.

Andrew

Mike,

Not a jet guy but I know quite a few. If you have the money to blow go fly the in FL you will have the type rating, but will need significantly more training to fly the real life missions you want to complete.

My suggestion, call Mark, and one of the sim companies. Figure out when he has a bunch of rocker trips/contract work and go SIC for him. Then do the sim and get your type. When you get done you will have 50+ hours in the jet, mentor time about done, and made a friend for life. I don’t know Mark well but we have met and he is a very earshot going likable guy, and blonde is a bonus. The second bonus is you get paid to fly which will off set the your sim cost. So take some time off and just go do it. Also while you sit at the AP waiting for the rocker you can keep up with your work at your day job.

Did I mention you will pilot for the rocker how much will that be!

Hell if I had the means I would have already done it.

Hi Mark,

That’s not my experience at FSI at SAT. Alex and I have just done a 61.58 over the last three days togeather. Awesome time getting to see each other perform in the SIM, great learning experience for Alex seeing all my mistakes....

Our SIM instructor flys a CJ2+ currently, the gentlemen who took our classes flys a CJ and I had a good chat to the 525 program manager who flys a CJ2 and CJ3.

Andrew