BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 May 2018, 20:00

Username Protected wrote:

CJ owners look wise, in my eyes, as fuel prices rise.

The hell you say!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 May 2018, 22:51

Without breaking too many contract fuel rules and being put on double-top-secret probation, all I'll say is to cut that price at least in half (and that's with the programs I have that're mostly West-Coast focused)

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 May 2018, 23:07

I don’t really need the iPad for enroute maps, I use it for departures, arrivals and approaches. Paper would do the same job but the CJ cockpit doesn’t have room for even one Jepp binder let alone a full flight kit (I carried one of these around in my TWA days too). I was never on the 74, but the 1011 had a nice desk next to each pilot. We didn’t need to be very space conscious.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 May 2018, 23:35

Username Protected wrote:

I don’t really need the iPad for enroute maps, I use it for departures, arrivals and approaches. Paper would do the same job but the CJ cockpit doesn’t have room for even one Jepp binder let alone a full flight kit (I carried one of these around in my TWA days too). I was never on the 74, but the 1011 had a nice desk next to each pilot. We didn’t need to be very space conscious.

John,

Not being familiar with your avionics capabilities, I made maybe an incorrect assumption that the pertinent plate was displayed on one of your screens. I better learn something more about the set- up of your avionics before making more incorrect assumptions. :eek:

Yes, we had a nice little table to our side for what ever, and a clip on the yoke for the arrival and approach plate, just like you did at TWA.

In fact, I owe you an apology in making other incorrect assumptions, because I didn't know your background in aviation; to me experience is everything in this segment of aviation..

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 May 2018, 00:01

Username Protected wrote:

Without breaking too many contract fuel rules and being put on double-top-secret probation, all I'll say is to cut that price at least in half (and that's with the programs I have that're mostly West-Coast focused)

I have 12 different programs. Best I can find at DCA is 8.55. Mid 5’s at KIAD.

Might be the weather too.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 May 2018, 00:01

Username Protected wrote:

I don’t really need the iPad for enroute maps, I use it for departures, arrivals and approaches. Paper would do the same job but the CJ cockpit doesn’t have room for even one Jepp binder let alone a full flight kit (I carried one of these around in my TWA days too). I was never on the 74, but the 1011 had a nice desk next to each pilot. We didn’t need to be very space conscious.

John,

Not being familiar with your avionics capabilities, I made maybe an incorrect assumption that the pertinent plate was displayed on one of your screens. I better learn something more about the set- up of your avionics before making more incorrect assumptions. :eek:

Yes, we had a nice little table to our side for what ever, and a clip on the yoke for the arrival and approach plate, just like you did at TWA.

In fact, I owe you an apology in making other incorrect assumptions, because I didn't know your background in aviation; to me experience is everything in this segment of aviation..

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 May 2018, 00:07

Paul:

Industry has been focused on this issue for a long time.

This was 1997.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/pN41LvuSz10[/youtube]

Click, click, click, click. Never really understood why it took four clicks to deautomate. Then I flew the 737-800 and I’ll be damn of it didn’t take four clicks. :rofl:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 May 2018, 00:21

Username Protected wrote:

I have 12 different programs. Best I can find at DCA is 8.55. Mid 5’s at KIAD.

Might be the weather too.

It seems counterintuitive, but in general, it’s not best to have 12 (and use them all) fuel providers. A lot of times, the discounts are based on volume. If you’re spreading around the vendors all the time, you’re not getting premium pricing with any of them.

You should be around $8.30 at KDCA and $4.75-4.80 at KIAD, depending on the quantity purchased.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 May 2018, 00:29

Quote:

You should be around $8.30 at KDCA

Did you jump through the hoops to go there?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 May 2018, 00:32

Username Protected wrote:

Quote:

You should be around $8.30 at KDCA

Did you jump through the hoops to go there?

I don’t go there, but do have contract fuel pricing available there regardless.
But yes, major hoops to jump through to go to DCA, such that if you’re not at one of the screening airports and don’t have security on staff, short of going there 20+ times per year, it isn’t worth the fiasco that it is.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 May 2018, 00:38

Username Protected wrote:

It seems counterintuitive, but in general, it’s not best to have 12 (and use them all) fuel providers. A lot of times, the discounts are based on volume. If you’re spreading around the vendors all the time, you’re not getting premium pricing with any of them.

CAA doesn't have per customer pricing, so whether you use a lot or not, doesn't matter.

I get the impression that very few of the others do per customer pricing as well, but that is possible. The times I have compared the price list with someone else (a 135 operator), they had the same price list to the penny for WFS, Uvair, and Everest. Those were the only fuel contracts we had in common.

If a contract provider raised their prices with you when you use less fuel, then you will tend to use even less with them which makes that tactic unstable and counter productive.

For me, in the DC area, here are my best prices:

KHEF: $3.84
KJYO: $4.15
KMTN: $4.73
KIAD: $5.21
KGAI: $5.45

KBWI: $8.45
KDCA: $8.55

KDCA is not a viable airport for security reasons, and KBWI is too expensive.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 May 2018, 00:46

You’re right, CAA is the same price for everyone. The contract fuel providers, however, are not.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 May 2018, 00:54

Username Protected wrote:

The contract fuel providers, however, are not.

I'd love to test that theory.

If you are willing, select a number of airport, FBO, card sets and we can compare prices for them.

Outside of CAA, I have Everest, Uvair, WFS.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 May 2018, 00:56

Username Protected wrote:

You’re right, CAA is the same price for everyone. The contract fuel providers, however, are not.

I fly a lowly Citaton. No way I buy enough fuel to make any contractor do me a volume deal. :lol:

If there were 24 contractors I would have deals with everyone of them.

The whole discount fuel thing cracks me up actually. Commodity game. Zero loyalty. This helps them how?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 May 2018, 01:03

We’ll use World, at the lowest tier

MMSD $3.24634
BJC $6.94
BUR $4.51177
HOU $3.78243
MDW $5.96374
BOI $4.02561

My first 60 hours in a CJ2