09 Jul 2025, 14:13 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is... Posted: 18 Dec 2023, 21:28 |
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Joined: 01/01/10 Posts: 3500 Post Likes: +2473 Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Aircraft: Citation Mustang
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Username Protected wrote: Clint, you only burn 500PPH in cruise in the Mustang? 650 in first. Those are really good numbers.. For a flight greater than 700nm, I'll typically cruise at FL410 (FL400 westbound) which yields 500pph at cruise power. A 3-hour flight uses 1650-1750 depending on descent profile.
_________________ Previous A36TN owner
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Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is... Posted: 21 Dec 2023, 01:39 |
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Joined: 07/30/16 Posts: 178 Post Likes: +58 Location: KSNA
Aircraft: 1981 B55 P2
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Username Protected wrote: Is fuel still in the $5PG range, even on programs? Varies. You can see my numbers here for 2022: viewtopic.php?f=49&t=221386Average fuel was $4.86. Right now prices are down a bit, low $4 range in many places, but they were up earlier. Where you fly makes a big difference. You can optimize by choosing the right airport and FBO, and also by tankering fuel when feasible. My plane allows that since it holds a lot. Fuel price delta has to be enough for the tankering weight increase. I'll update my results for 2023 when known. The best fuel program is CAA. I use Everest a lot otherwise (works at my home field). Otherwise an occasional use of WFS or Titan. That's all I have. One of the big benefits of CAA is that the fees are also set by contract with each FBO. Any part 91 turbine operator who isn't CAA is throwing money out the window. Mike C.
Hi Mike. Have really enjoyed reading your posts about the V. I was wondering if you have any issues flying into Mexico or Canada single pilot. I read somewhere that there was a difference between the 501 and V in that regard?
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Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is... Posted: 21 Dec 2023, 12:20 |
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Joined: 11/06/20 Posts: 1645 Post Likes: +1700 Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
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Username Protected wrote: Hi Mike. Have really enjoyed reading your posts about the V. I was wondering if you have any issues flying into Mexico or Canada single pilot. I read somewhere that there was a difference between the 501 and V in that regard? I'm not Mike but can comment. Mike does not fly internationally. You are correct that there are issues flying a 560 (and 500, 550, etc) single pilot outside the US. The problem is that the plane is certificated as 2 crew but the FAA created a Single Pilot Exemption (SPE) to allow them to be flown single pilot. However, that SPE is only valid in the US unless another country specifically recognizes it. Obviously, as Mike has advocated for, they should just create a CE-500S type rating like they did for the 525 series. It's weird with the 500 series there are models that are certificated single pilot (like my 501SP) so my type rating just says CE-500. Because Mike's plane is 2-crew, his type rating says "CE-500, Second-in-command required" but then he has a separate piece of paper (SPE letter) that says he can fly his plane single pilot. It's a mess. Bottom line, I would be ok to fly into the Bahamas with an SPE (they have never asked for any of my flying documents - just passports and cash for fees) but I would not fly to Mexico. I'm sure people have done it but they love to bust people for trivial crap in order to collect fines. Canada may recognize our SPE, someone else will have to chime in.
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Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is... Posted: 21 Dec 2023, 12:42 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 20442 Post Likes: +25713 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Hi Mike. Have really enjoyed reading your posts about the V. I was wondering if you have any issues flying into Mexico or Canada single pilot. I read somewhere that there was a difference between the 501 and V in that regard? I have had no issues flying into Canada or Mexico because I haven't done it. When comparing 501 to V, there are two primary aspects which affect your ability. to fly internationally, single pilot and TCAS equipment. In the USA, you can get the SPE, single pilot exemption, which allows you to fly the V single pilot. You need sufficient experience (500 hours turbine is the usual catch), and a little extra training, but otherwise is straightforward. The SPE is only a USA thing. But I hear that Canada has some similar means. I have not researched this thoroughly, though. Mexico doesn't recognize the SPE as far as I know, but I hear rumblings they might. Some countries DO recognize the SPE, like the Bahamas I think. I'm not an expect here, so this will require further research. There is some effort at the FAA to create a single pilot type rating for the 500 series, a CE-500S type rating, which I think would make a lot of sense. I don't know where that stands today and it would clarify a lot of things. As for TCAS, my plane doesn't have TCAS II 7.1 since it doesn't need it by rule in the USA. I believe Canada also doesn't require it for my plane. Mexico starting requiring TCAS II 7.1 for all planes over 12,500 lbs. The V is over, the 501 is not. I elected not to install Garmin's TCAS II 7.1 option (GTX-8000 and other stuff). It was kind of expensive. I'm okay with being limited to USA only for now. My needs to travel internationally are low. With my equipment and license, I think I can go into Canada (maybe two pilot?) and I can fly to Alaska. The developments in Mexico make me never want to go there (they just announce an intensive ramp check program). Sorry I could not be more definitive. Others know a lot more about international flying than I do. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is... Posted: 21 Dec 2023, 13:02 |
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Joined: 12/29/10 Posts: 2772 Post Likes: +2626 Location: Dallas, TX (KADS & KJWY)
Aircraft: T28B,7GCBC,E90
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Username Protected wrote: There is some effort at the FAA to create a single pilot type rating for the 500 series, a CE-500S type rating, which I think would make a lot of sense. I don't know where that stands today and it would clarify a lot of things.
The process is ongoing but still in limbo (update from a few weeks ago from the guy running the program from the FAA side). As others have said, you need a SIC to fly internationally. Not a huge issue for the handful of times you may need it, and frankly not a bad a thing to have since sometimes it takes two pilots to figure out what the heck you’re supposed to do (at least for inexperienced international guys like me). Question: does the SIC need the SIC on their certificate or does a basic 61.55 sign off work for international work? Robert
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Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is... Posted: 21 Dec 2023, 13:18 |
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Joined: 07/21/08 Posts: 5781 Post Likes: +7189 Location: Decatur, TX (XA99)
Aircraft: 1979 Bonanza A36
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Username Protected wrote: There is some effort at the FAA to create a single pilot type rating for the 500 series, a CE-500S type rating, which I think would make a lot of sense. I don't know where that stands today and it would clarify a lot of things.
The process is ongoing but still in limbo (update from a few weeks ago from the guy running the program from the FAA side). As others have said, you need a SIC to fly internationally. Not a huge issue for the handful of times you may need it, and frankly not a bad a thing to have since sometimes it takes two pilots to figure out what the heck you’re supposed to do (at least for inexperienced international guys like me). Question: does the SIC need the SIC on their certificate or does a basic 61.55 sign off work for international work? Robert You have to have the SIC rating on your licence. Mexico does not recognize our 61.55 signoffs unless its made "official".
_________________ I'm just here for the free snacks
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Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is... Posted: 21 Dec 2023, 13:44 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 20442 Post Likes: +25713 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Question: does the SIC need the SIC on their certificate or does a basic 61.55 sign off work for international work? They need SIC type rating at least. From 61.55: A person may serve as a second-in-command of an aircraft type certificated for more than one required pilot flight crewmember or in operations requiring a second-in-command pilot flight crewmember only if that person holds:
(1) At least a private pilot certificate with the appropriate category and class rating; and
(2) An instrument rating or privilege that applies to the aircraft being flown if the flight is under IFR; and
(3) At least a pilot type rating for the aircraft being flown unless the flight will be conducted as domestic flight operations within the United States airspace.To get an SIC type rating is relatively easy. You need to do the things in 61.55 and then have someone sign you off for it (can be the PIC, doesn't need to be an instructor), then you can go the FSDO and submit for the SIC type rating to be added to your license. At least, that is the process as I understand it. Note that going to places like the sim schools will result in a near PIC type rating effort in most cases. Their SIC type rating programs are costly and time consuming. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is... Posted: 21 Dec 2023, 16:44 |
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Joined: 12/29/10 Posts: 2772 Post Likes: +2626 Location: Dallas, TX (KADS & KJWY)
Aircraft: T28B,7GCBC,E90
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Username Protected wrote: You have to have the SIC rating on your licence. Mexico does not recognize our 61.55 signoffs unless it’s made "official". Thanks, that’s what I suspected but just didn’t look it up. Robert
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Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is... Posted: 21 Dec 2023, 16:46 |
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Joined: 12/29/10 Posts: 2772 Post Likes: +2626 Location: Dallas, TX (KADS & KJWY)
Aircraft: T28B,7GCBC,E90
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Username Protected wrote: To get an SIC type rating is relatively easy. You need to do the things in 61.55 and then have someone sign you off for it (can be the PIC, doesn't need to be an instructor), then you can go the FSDO and submit for the SIC type rating to be added to your license.
All correct, except that the applicant can do it through IACRA (yes, a non instructor can endorse via IACRA) and a DPE can sign off on it. No need to go to a FSDO. Robert
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Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is... Posted: 21 Dec 2023, 17:25 |
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Joined: 01/07/21 Posts: 408 Post Likes: +396
Aircraft: M20J/R, Sr22, SR20
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Username Protected wrote: Hi Mike. Have really enjoyed reading your posts about the V. I was wondering if you have any issues flying into Mexico or Canada single pilot. I read somewhere that there was a difference between the 501 and V in that regard? I have had no issues flying into Canada or Mexico because I haven't done it. When comparing 501 to V, there are two primary aspects which affect your ability. to fly internationally, single pilot and TCAS equipment. In the USA, you can get the SPE, single pilot exemption, which allows you to fly the V single pilot. You need sufficient experience (500 hours turbine is the usual catch), and a little extra training, but otherwise is straightforward. The SPE is only a USA thing. But I hear that Canada has some similar means. I have not researched this thoroughly, though. Mexico doesn't recognize the SPE as far as I know, but I hear rumblings they might. Some countries DO recognize the SPE, like the Bahamas I think. I'm not an expect here, so this will require further research. There is some effort at the FAA to create a single pilot type rating for the 500 series, a CE-500S type rating, which I think would make a lot of sense. I don't know where that stands today and it would clarify a lot of things. As for TCAS, my plane doesn't have TCAS II 7.1 since it doesn't need it by rule in the USA. I believe Canada also doesn't require it for my plane. Mexico starting requiring TCAS II 7.1 for all planes over 12,500 lbs. The V is over, the 501 is not. I elected not to install Garmin's TCAS II 7.1 option (GTX-8000 and other stuff). It was kind of expensive. I'm okay with being limited to USA only for now. My needs to travel internationally are low. With my equipment and license, I think I can go into Canada (maybe two pilot?) and I can fly to Alaska. The developments in Mexico make me never want to go there (they just announce an intensive ramp check program). Sorry I could not be more definitive. Others know a lot more about international flying than I do. Mike C.
Mike,
Curious, your MU2 time was where you got your 500 hours turbine?
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Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is... Posted: 21 Dec 2023, 19:43 |
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Joined: 07/17/15 Posts: 552 Post Likes: +541 Location: KSRQ
Aircraft: C510
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So did we decide that the “best light jet” is the Mustang then?
_________________ Tony
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Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is... Posted: 21 Dec 2023, 20:21 |
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Joined: 05/23/13 Posts: 8160 Post Likes: +10517 Company: Jet Acquisitions Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: So did we decide that the “best light jet” is the Mustang then? Yes.
_________________ Winners don’t whine.
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Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is... Posted: 21 Dec 2023, 21:39 |
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Joined: 07/21/08 Posts: 5781 Post Likes: +7189 Location: Decatur, TX (XA99)
Aircraft: 1979 Bonanza A36
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Username Protected wrote: To get an SIC type rating is relatively easy. You need to do the things in 61.55 and then have someone sign you off for it (can be the PIC, doesn't need to be an instructor), then you can go the FSDO and submit for the SIC type rating to be added to your license.
At least, that is the process as I understand it.
Note that going to places like the sim schools will result in a near PIC type rating effort in most cases. Their SIC type rating programs are costly and time consuming.
Mike C. That is correct. I am not an instructor but have signed several people off to get their SIC type.
_________________ I'm just here for the free snacks
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Post subject: Re: The Best Light Jet is... Posted: 21 Dec 2023, 23:55 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 20442 Post Likes: +25713 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Curious, your MU2 time was where you got your 500 hours turbine? Yes, ~1600 hours MU2 time. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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