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28 Jun 2025, 08:15 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: Yesterday, 11:26 
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Joined: 09/02/09
Posts: 8687
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Company: OAA
Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
Here’s a little Piaggio video for you guys. The fastest biplane I’ve ever flown for sure:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6bbDyhBNx1c


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: Yesterday, 13:08 
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Joined: 03/03/11
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Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
Awesome video!

One quibble / I think fuselage lift contribution is closer to 20% of lift at cruise! Will double check though…


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: Yesterday, 17:16 
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Joined: 10/04/19
Posts: 36
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Aircraft: P180 II Evo
I remember checking out this plane somewhere in Texas in 2020. Didn't go for it at the time.


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: Today, 01:43 
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Location: Hayward, CA
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Username Protected wrote:

One quibble / I think fuselage lift contribution is closer to 20% of lift at cruise! Will double check though…


How did you all conclude that fuselage lift is a good thing? Every pound of lift that is generated by the fuselage is a pound that is not generated by the wings. Wings are more efficient at generating lift, and therefore generate less induced drag. 20% fuselage lift sounds like a more sellable way of saying “x% more induced drag.”

Are you sure that this is a feature and not a bug? Is is possible that the designers noticed “Ah %#$@, the fuselage is generating lift — and drag!” and then the marketing folks said “Oh, cool, the fuselage is helping!”

We do have to take pitching moment into account, of course, and it’s possible that the fuselage is offloading the forward wing and horizontal stabilizer, allowing them to be smaller, lighter, and less draggy, but in general, bluff bodies aren’t particularly good lifting bodies.

And no, the fact that the P180 is faster than other similarly sized and similarly powered airplanes is not proof that fuselage lift is good. Drag is a sum of many contributions, and speed is very engine and altitude dependent.

Mind you, I still want one ;-)

Your friendly neighborhood engineer,
Martín


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 Post subject: Re: The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.
PostPosted: 0 minutes ago 
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Joined: 12/03/14
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
How did you all conclude that fuselage lift is a good thing?

It is better than a fuselage that is only drag.

A fuselage is a necessary element to make the plane useful. Given that, if it generates lift, all the better.

I'm pretty sure my fuselage generates negligible lift during cruise flight.

Mike C.

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Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


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