09 Nov 2025, 18:16 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: My Eclipse Jet Saga ....  Posted: 26 Feb 2014, 10:54 |
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Joined: 11/08/12
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Location: Jackson, MS (KHKS)
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Username Protected wrote: Trust me, the company is doing everything it can to reduce costs. They would have never switched DIV over to it if it didn't help the reduce costs in the program. And these are very very low volume applications. Well, building aircraft is not rocket science. Whereas building rockets is ... rocket science. Different cost/benefit calculus for weight savings, different issues with airframe longevity ... don't think that analogy is relevant.
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Post subject: Re: My Eclipse Jet Saga .... Posted: 26 Feb 2014, 13:36 |
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Joined: 12/16/09
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Username Protected wrote: I didn't think that the friction-stir welding process set them back at all. I could be misremembering or just plain wrong. But I thought that part worked out. From what I remember reading about the autopsy of eclipse aerospace, several causes were listed. FSW wasn't among them. But I don't know if that is true or not. I would be interested from hearing from an insider or someone familiar with the program if indeed it was a big money sink and was a significant contributor to the downfall of eclipse. From what I remember it was a success.
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Post subject: Re: My Eclipse Jet Saga .... Posted: 26 Feb 2014, 13:50 |
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Joined: 11/08/12
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Location: Live in San Carlos, CA - based Hayward, CA KHWD
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Username Protected wrote: Plain wrong. The capital and fixed cost intensive nature of FSW makes it only pay off in very high production numbers, numbers that general aviation will likely never be able to generate. Automotive analogies just don't work - the auto industry generates the number of vehicles in a couple minutes that aircraft manufacturers put out in years. Different animal for designing a cost effective manufacturing process. Which is plain wrong, because I know from my work about successful and economical FSW on aero structures with very low volume production.
Fair enough, I will walk back what I said originally, and say instead I recall reading that the FSW process at Eclipse was only economically viable at high production numbers.
Bottom line is Eclipse wildly overestimated what the demand for their product might be, and made lots of decisions based on that which also proved to be wrong.
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-Jon C.
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Post subject: Re: My Eclipse Jet Saga .... Posted: 26 Feb 2014, 13:58 |
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Username Protected wrote: Bottom line is Eclipse wildly overestimated what the demand for their product might be, and made lots of decisions based on that which also proved to be wrong. At the price point and operating cost projected by the company they would have sold unprecedented numbers. The problem was that both price and operating cost were freely invented and only served to further the underlying investment scam.
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Post subject: Re: My Eclipse Jet Saga .... Posted: 26 Feb 2014, 19:42 |
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Joined: 05/17/11
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Username Protected wrote: Bottom line is Eclipse wildly overestimated what the demand for their product might be, and made lots of decisions based on that which also proved to be wrong. At the price point and operating cost projected by the company they would have sold unprecedented numbers. The problem was that both price and operating cost were freely invented and only served to further the underlying investment scam.
It wasn't a scam. The engine for the original design failed during its first test (not eclipses fault). The new engine (since they had no other choice) was heavier and caused some other design issues which included higher fuel flow (thus the tip tanks). As for the software, as someone pointed out earlier, the garmin g1000 did not exist at the time so Avedyne was hired to design the system. Avidyne underestimated and underdelivered, ran out of money/resources/time for a project they committed to. Again, not eclipses fault.
Eclipse, had not for those serious issues, would be a solid company today.
Last edited on 26 Feb 2014, 20:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: My Eclipse Jet Saga .... Posted: 26 Feb 2014, 20:01 |
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Joined: 05/17/11
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Username Protected wrote: So maybe delusion or psychosis is a better word than scam. Again, read my post above.
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Post subject: Re: My Eclipse Jet Saga .... Posted: 26 Feb 2014, 20:02 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
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Username Protected wrote: the garmin g1000 did not exist at the time Really? G1000 has been in airplanes since 2005…. Maybe 2004. Garmin has been in airplanes since the early 1990's.
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Post subject: Re: My Eclipse Jet Saga .... Posted: 26 Feb 2014, 20:03 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
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Username Protected wrote: Well, now that we've scared away all the Eclipse owners.... It's their own fault…. Gotta keep your game tight 
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Post subject: Re: My Eclipse Jet Saga .... Posted: 26 Feb 2014, 20:04 |
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Joined: 11/08/12
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Location: Jackson, MS (KHKS)
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Username Protected wrote: So maybe delusion or psychosis is a better word than scam. Again, read my post above.
They were the general contractor. Managing subs is their job. They blew it. It was eclipses fault.
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Post subject: Re: My Eclipse Jet Saga .... Posted: 26 Feb 2014, 20:07 |
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Joined: 05/17/11
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Username Protected wrote: They were the general contractor. Managing subs is their job. They blew it. It was eclipses fault. But it was not a scam
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