Now Bruce, you've been around BT long enough to know that you need to account for rare exceptions when you make a statement like this. Otherwise you will be criticized for painting with too broad a brush!! "Hey, it doesn't apply to MEEEE, so you're WRONG!!"

You needed to write it this way...

"It would be very difficult to maintain proficiency flying a jet only 80 hours per year. There are some circumstances where it can be done. And there are some pilots who are endowed with natural gifts most of us could only dream of possessing who pull it off. For the majority of pilots flying such relatively few hours, and who can't or don't compensate with adequate training flights across all the necessary conditions to make such training useful, proficiency will suffer. To be brutally honest, the overwhelming majority of pilots fall into this category. Though again, some don't and supplement their normal flying with an abundance of training. In fact, one can say the same things flying pistons, especially for pilots who are actively flying IFR. But I don't want to muddy the waters of this thread talking about pistons. That's a topic for another day."

Yeah, I know that's a lot of words to make the same basic point most of us understood with your much simpler statement.

But you should really spend whatever time is required to write a post that accommodates every possible exception if you don't want to be educated about those exceptions and smited with some dislikes for good measure.

Which in this case, totally invalidated your opinion.

Bruce, in your opinion, how many hours a year does an owner/operator of a light jet need to fly to truly stay current and safe? Genuine question.

Everybody has that kind of "data", which means they have only opinions.

Mike C.

How many is enough?

Who decides?

If you want to preach, put a number on it.


You want them to hand fly the first 80 hours?

How do people get experience before they have experience?

All this preaching about what is or isn't enough misses the point. A person flying a Citation is going to be safer than flying a 340 for the same mission mix per year.

Mike C.

How many is enough?

Who decides?

If you want to preach, put a number on it.


You want them to hand fly the first 80 hours?

How do people get experience before they have experience?

All this preaching about what is or isn't enough misses the point. A person flying a Citation is going to be safer than flying a 340 for the same mission mix per year.

Mike C.

Mike,

Be kind.

You never know what someone is going through.

So you don't know the number, only what the number isn't. Not so helpful.


OP: "Right now I split my time between my 206 and my 340."

Mike C.

The intent of including likely annual hours in the OP was only so that hopefully someone could help me understand the economics between the two engines at that level.

I appreciate the inputs from those that have made the transition.

There’s been some focus on proficiency, but that is debatable.

What isn’t is that low utilization, unless done very strategically is the most expensive way (per hour) to own a jet.

My advice, get a partner or a couple of (legal) dry lease customers.

150 hours is minimum, but 200+ is better.

Remember, the investment in the aircraft, the Insurance, the hangar, and the majority of the maintenance cost the same per annum no matter how much you fly!

Hours and proficiency are only loosely related. Hours watching the AP fly the plane don't make you proficient, and that is the vast majority of hours jet pilots get.

You can fly 200 hours and be marginal. You can fly 50 hours and be sharp. it all depends on what you do in those hours.

For myself, I do a yearly training at a sim school or in airplane (alternative each year). Then every 3 months or so, I do a practice flight which involves 3 approaches, single engine work, air work, and I do it generally without AP for the entire ~1 hour flight. I get more stick time in that 1 hour flight than some folks flying 50 hours. During "normal" use, I almost always fly an approach, and often hand fly them to keep my skills up. The goal is to make hand flying, a perishable skill, easy enough that I can hand fly AND do some thing else at the same time.

So blanket statements like "X hours is required to be proficient in a jet" are mostly meaningless. It depends on what you do in those hours, and who you are.

Mike C.

Charter and frax are more expensive than what I do, by a bunch. I don't think I can own my jet any cheaper than I do now without some significant complications.


That way you can argue with them over who gets the plane during busy periods like the holidays. The plane is not really "yours" in these situations. For these arrangements to work, there needs to be compatible personalities and it can be complex to untangle them if things go sideways, and very precise terms about scheduling.

There are those who have good and stable partnerships but that seems to be the exception rather than the norm for owner flown Citations.

Partnerships also complicate tax and ownership structures.

If one partner is involved in managing the airplane, and gets no credit for that, it can be unfair. Many partnerships hire a third party manager for this reason, which is extra cost.


Mostly true but maintenance is sensitive to hours. For example, engine programs or HSI/OH.

Cycles also cost something, ultimately, so it isn't just hours.

The LUMP makes low use much less costly. If you fly too much for LUMP, then your inspection costs jump significantly. For example, phase 5 occurs twice as often.

If I had a partner who flew as much as I did, the LUMP would no longer work, but hangar and insurance would be halved per person. Maybe this is worth $20K per year? Not worth it to me to seek a partner for relatively meager savings. The majority of the benefit would be cost of money savings from having half as much invested.

Mike C.

Nice looking 206 Jonathan

Along with all the Help these Folks will give You........spend some time reading the Crash Talk threads That otta be enough to motivate you into staying Proficient in whatever you fly, and however many hours it takes to accomplish that