20 Jan 2026, 19:08 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Only Lear 23 still flying Posted: 13 Jan 2026, 23:58 |
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Joined: 01/10/18 Posts: 127 Post Likes: +247 Company: Sugarbush Soaring Association
Aircraft: Gliders and others
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Often referred to as an "executive mailing tube". My only small amount of Lear time was in a 31A - pretty amazing aircraft.
Regards, Tom
_________________ Tom Anderson Sugarbush Soaring Warren-Sugarbush Airport 0B7 @towpilot helpyouthsoar.com
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Post subject: Re: Only Lear 23 still flying Posted: 14 Jan 2026, 03:32 |
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Joined: 10/07/18 Posts: 3793 Post Likes: +2697 Company: Retired Location: Columbus, Ohio
Aircraft: Baron 58, Lear 35
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Username Protected wrote: Don’t forget the Lear 24 overrun at Catalina island years ago. Went off the end and instead of using the emergency release they tried to open normally and electric door motor ignited the fuel and all died. You shouldn’t need the door motor to open the door normally. It’s only used to pull the two halves together to latch it.
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Post subject: Re: Only Lear 23 still flying Posted: 14 Jan 2026, 05:24 |
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Joined: 11/16/14 Posts: 10107 Post Likes: +14720 Company: Retired UA Steamfitter Location: Colfax Washington
Aircraft: 1947 Bonanza 35
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Username Protected wrote: Matt, I think they called that Blowing Coal, long before someone coined the phrase Rolling Coal 
_________________ .......This is not just the Internet...It's BeechTalk.....
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Post subject: Re: Only Lear 23 still flying Posted: 14 Jan 2026, 08:30 |
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Joined: 01/23/18 Posts: 830 Post Likes: +1248
Aircraft: Aerostar
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Username Protected wrote: Don’t forget the Lear 24 overrun at Catalina island years ago. Went off the end and instead of using the emergency release they tried to open normally and electric door motor ignited the fuel and all died. Edit: Paul beat me to it Doubtful That Lear up to the Lear 35/36 & 31 does have an electric motor in the door but the purpose of the motor is to pull the doors together to allow the latch for the upper door to close. Once closed the motor is reversed and the hook is retracted to facilitate opening the door as needed. https://www.baaa-acro.com/crash/crash-l ... d-6-killed
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Post subject: Re: Only Lear 23 still flying Posted: 14 Jan 2026, 09:04 |
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Joined: 01/10/17 Posts: 2470 Post Likes: +1834 Company: Skyhaven Airport Inc
Aircraft: various mid century
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Username Protected wrote: I always thought there'd be a whole cottage industry and slew of STC's upgrading old jets to SP. The Beech 400, the Lears, the IAI Westwinds etc would all be good candidates. In my mind, you'd just re-certify the STC based on a completely new panel, move critical items to the pilots side, lean a bit more on automation and voila - Bob's your uncle. I don't see why it couldn't be done.
But obviously, none of that has happened, so there has to be a reason. It would be infinitely easier to single-handedly shove about 9 yards of wet string up a very angry wildcat's rectum than get all those airplanes you mentioned modified and certified for single pilot operations. If you really, really wanted to do the string thing at least it is remotely possible. 
The point is not that it's a possible thing. I just wonder if today's engineers make a more efficient structure and airframe than what was known before. If the engines and avionics are equal what makes the new airplanes better? Are they better? The little jets these days sure don't seem to have comparable useful load, performance or range. Even with the wonders of modern technology.
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Post subject: Re: Only Lear 23 still flying Posted: 14 Jan 2026, 12:56 |
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Joined: 01/24/10 Posts: 7488 Post Likes: +5201 Location: Concord , CA (KCCR)
Aircraft: 1967 Baron B55
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Username Protected wrote: Don’t forget the Lear 24 overrun at Catalina island years ago. Went off the end and instead of using the emergency release they tried to open normally and electric door motor ignited the fuel and all died. Edit: Paul beat me to it Doubtful That Lear up to the Lear 35/36 & 31 does have an electric motor in the door but the purpose of the motor is to pull the doors together to allow the latch for the upper door to close. Once closed the motor is reversed and the hook is retracted to facilitate opening the door as needed. https://www.baaa-acro.com/crash/crash-l ... d-6-killed
One of the passengers was a member of my church. Her husband said the first responders reported hearing an electric motor operating just before the fire. The passengers were alive and asking the first responders for help to get out and were trying to open the door.
Thanks for clarifying the door operation.
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Post subject: Re: Only Lear 23 still flying Posted: 14 Jan 2026, 15:42 |
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Joined: 10/07/18 Posts: 3793 Post Likes: +2697 Company: Retired Location: Columbus, Ohio
Aircraft: Baron 58, Lear 35
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Username Protected wrote: Edit: Paul beat me to it Doubtful That Lear up to the Lear 35/36 & 31 does have an electric motor in the door but the purpose of the motor is to pull the doors together to allow the latch for the upper door to close. Once closed the motor is reversed and the hook is retracted to facilitate opening the door as needed. https://www.baaa-acro.com/crash/crash-l ... d-6-killedOne of the passengers was a member of my church. Her husband said the first responders reported hearing an electric motor operating just before the fire. The passengers were alive and asking the first responders for help to get out and were trying to open the door. Thanks for clarifying the door operation. If someone didn’t know how to operate the door, and had simply watched the crew close the door, thus believing the motor needed to be run, the only direction the motor can run from the inflight position is to re-engage the hook(s). If the hook(s) are engaged, no one inside or outside is going to be able to open the door.
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Post subject: Re: Only Lear 23 still flying Posted: 14 Jan 2026, 17:02 |
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Joined: 01/24/10 Posts: 7488 Post Likes: +5201 Location: Concord , CA (KCCR)
Aircraft: 1967 Baron B55
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Username Protected wrote: The second window on the right side of the Lear 23 was an emergency exit. More intuitive to open. Why wouldn't they have tried that? How was the passenger briefing? Probably no passenger briefing. That was Charles Shultz’s plane. He wrote the peanuts column.
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Post subject: Re: Only Lear 23 still flying Posted: 14 Jan 2026, 18:10 |
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Joined: 03/28/17 Posts: 9147 Post Likes: +11643 Location: N. California
Aircraft: C-182
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Username Protected wrote: The second window on the right side of the Lear 23 was an emergency exit. More intuitive to open. Why wouldn't they have tried that? How was the passenger briefing? Probably no passenger briefing. That was Charles Shultz’s plane. He wrote the peanuts column.
I sure wouldn't want to be a pilot that survived a crash but left passengers to perish in the plane because they didn't get a safety briefing.
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Post subject: Re: Only Lear 23 still flying Posted: 15 Jan 2026, 13:04 |
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Joined: 04/26/13 Posts: 22011 Post Likes: +22791 Location: Columbus , IN (KBAK)
Aircraft: 1968 Baron D55
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Username Protected wrote: Out of curiosity what modern quiet engines could hypothetically work on a 23?
Same thrust and weight just quieter.
And with modern avionics and allowing single pilot how much weight could be saved?
Are the new designs better or worse if the above items were changed. Would the early Lear have more useful load, better range, simpler systems than a Phenom or Citation. Modern avionics provide the same advantages regardless of the age of the airframe, it’s all a matter of bang for the buck. The 20 series Lears had NO problem with useful load from a performance standpoint. Depending on the model, max gross could be a technical issue, but the thrust to weight was enormous. Matching that with a modern fan engine would be the trick, but assuming it could be done you’d have similar performance and much better range. In an airplane that handled like a sports car. You decide if that’s a benefit or detriment. The practical problem is that by the time you gut the plane, overhaul the ancient electrical and hydraulic systems, install new digital avionics, hang FADEC controlled fans on it, and get it certified again you’d have to charge as much or more than a current production airplane. Had Learjet survived in some form, and they wanted to compete with the current light jets I think they could have, but it would still require a massive engineering project. All of that said, the video brought a tear to my eye. The 23 was my first jet, my first Type, and to this day far and away the best airplane I’ve ever flown. Oh, and the panel and interior? The restored airplane looks better than factory new. Welcome to the 1960s.
_________________ My last name rhymes with 'geese'.
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