BeechTalk - BT

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Username Protected wrote:

Being a pilot and an aircraft owner or operator doesn't make you special and it doesn't make you an aviation expert.

I only claim to be an example, one that comes with specifics and data.

I am not the outlier you claim. Many are doing a similar thing.

In Dec 2020 when I bought my Citation V, a P300 was typically about $8M and I paid under $1M all in with upgrades. The $7M difference would have grown $5.5M since then if put into an SP500 fund. I am $5.5M ahead by sacrificing 10% on my airplane choice. That is a very expensive 10% and completely dominates my operating cost.

So when someone asks how the P300 could be better, the obvious answer is it could be cheaper to own and operate. That was my answer.

Mike C.

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For people that ride in the back, I think one of the biggest differences between the citation and the phenom, the phenom looks like a new design, big jet. The citations kind of look old and small, sitting low to the ground, even when they’re new. I guess that would fall under the ramp appeal category. We have a friend/acquaintance that just bought a new Praetor. They are selling it, because it’s worth so much more used than what they paid. It’s just a financial decision. Gonna take that money and buy another new jet. Be nice to play in that sandbox, but watching from a distance.

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Why do old men want new young wives instead of ones their own age?
Same reason they want a new Jet.

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Username Protected wrote:

Why do old men want new young wives instead of ones their own age?
Same reason they want a new Jet.

Because they are high maintenance and expensive?

Mike C.

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Man... this is fun.
:peace:

( I just wish I could be part of the JET-A group... )

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Username Protected wrote:

Why do old men want new young wives instead of ones their own age?
Same reason they want a new Jet.

Because they are high maintenance and expensive?

Mike C.

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One of them costs a LOT OF MONEY to get rid of. ;-)

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I just did a little research, between the Netjets and Flexjet fleets they operating over 200 Phenom 300's and zero Citation V's!

Plus they have a TON of new Phenom 300's o order!!

Idiots!!!

Do they not know anything about acquisition cost or operating cost??

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Username Protected wrote:

You can’t afford either but you just don’t know it yet.

It pleases me I don't have your knowledge since having that sounds expensive and depressing. I live in my ignorance that provides me with great happiness and satisfaction at a modest cost.

There may come a day when some great financial calamity occurs with my Citation ownership. But that day isn't today, and I don't fear it should it come.

Indeed, if I had $10M tied up in a newish airplane, my anxiety would be FAR greater than what I feel today with my current choice. My downside risk is very limited, a Phenom could lose more market value in a year than my plane's total value.

The P300 is 10% more airplane for 10 times the cost. That works for some, not for me.

Mike C.

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Username Protected wrote:

Why do old men want new young wives instead of ones their own age?
Same reason they want a new Jet.

Ref young wives.. 30 year old body comes with a 30 year old head.
No thanks.

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Phenom 300 a great plane.
Company in whose hangar we rent space have two Phenom 300s.

Great ramp presence.
Built like a brick sh*thouse.... stout.

Great systems integration.
Tube is much better and roomier than the Citation series.

IF, IF I could afford one, or justify one, (by myself in the plane 80% of the time), would be all over a Phenom 300 vs Citation series.

For now the M2 fits our mission, our pocketbook and has no bad habits.

But IF, IF, Phenom 300 very nice indeed.

Username Protected

Username Protected wrote:

Phenom 300 a great plane.
Company in whose hangar we rent space have two Phenom 300s.

Great ramp presence.
Built like a brick sh*thouse.... stout.

Great systems integration.
Tube is much better and roomier than the Citation series.

IF, IF I could afford one, or justify one, (by myself in the plane 80% of the time), would be all over a Phenom 300 vs Citation series.

For now the M2 fits our mission, our pocketbook and has no bad habits.

But IF, IF, Phenom 300 very nice indeed.

Bill... you bought a new M2! You crazy guy you!! You could have bought a Citation V!

Username Protected

Username Protected wrote:

Phenom 300 a great plane.
Company in whose hangar we rent space have two Phenom 300s.

Great ramp presence.
Built like a brick sh*thouse.... stout.

Great systems integration.
Tube is much better and roomier than the Citation series.

IF, IF I could afford one, or justify one, (by myself in the plane 80% of the time), would be all over a Phenom 300 vs Citation series.

For now the M2 fits our mission, our pocketbook and has no bad habits.

But IF, IF, Phenom 300 very nice indeed.

Bill... you bought a new M2! You crazy guy you!! You could have bought a Citation V!

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Hats off to MC, MT and quite a few other members here for beating the system simply by being very engaged and educated about their aircraft. Not everyone can do that.

They are going almost as fast and almost as far for a fraction of what those that are less engaged spend. Of course it won’t work on a large commercial fleet catering to the absolute wealthiest among us but it is working very well for them. Too bad some regard them as posers for sharing their secrets.

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Quote:

I do not have the time, the curiousity, nor the proclivity of Brother Ciholas to invest in a Citation V. But God bless him. We should all fly what we like, can afford, and have an interest. If we all liked the same things, nothing would be affordable, and it would be a very boring world. Thank goodness we have free will and choices. We just all need to acknowledge that when someone makes a choice different from ours, it is not wrong. It is just different and may fit their needs, budget, interest, etc.

Have fun, fly safely, enjoy what one has, and don't denigrate someone else's decision. Thank goodness we have options. We are enourmously fortunate to live in the country in which we live and enjoy the gift of aviation.

What's so special about the Phenom 300?