You aren't the shops customer, even during a transaction, the seller is the customer- you represent buyers...

And if you have a bad experience with a shop, why would you guide another customer to them? Are you saying all shops are bad?

People who actually own and operate...

Are you paying the bills?

If not, you aren't the customer.

Mike C.

Which doesn't negate the experience of others. He can do it his way, and we can do it our way.

The basic message is clear, you can own and operate a Citation economically and safely using a small shop. Those who say otherwise simply don't have that knowledge.

Mike C.

Which doesn't negate the experience of others. He can do it his way, and we can do it our way.

The basic message is clear, you can own and operate a Citation economically and safely using a small shop. Those who say otherwise simply don't have that knowledge.

Mike C.

Are you paying the bills?

If not, you aren't the customer.

Mike C.

I always love a good Mike/Chip row, but seriously, what's the point of this thread?

In the same way that I would not take a 45 year old Corvette to a Chevy dealer dealer for maintenance or service, I would not take a 45 year old Citation to Textron.

There have been numerous examples in this thread of big shops and the OEMs screwing up. You yourself posted that corrosion was missed (skipped) by the OEM and was caught by another shop. So going to a big shop doesn't mean you get better results, which is Mike's entire point.

The bottom line is that the owner (or someone that works for the owner in the case of a larger org with a flight department) must be personally involved with the maintenance of their aircraft no matter who is maintaining it. Otherwise they will get substandard service and will pay a premium for it.

As for dealing with recalcitrant sellers, that is just part of the boom bust cycle in all markets. The same things happen in housing, art, cars, etc. When the market is hot and prices are high, sellers don't think they need to be accommodating and as long as the market is hot, they don't. If you want or have to buy in such a market you either need to take the risk or hold off until the market cools and sellers are forced to make the buyers happy.

So we are in agreement, a small economical shop can maintain a Citation safely and competently.

Case closed.

Mike C.

So we are in agreement, a small economical shop can maintain a Citation safely and competently.

Case closed.

Mike C.

Buyers like the large shops ‘cause it’s not their money that corrects the airworthy squawks.



Robert T

Exactly.
If the seller is paying, it only makes sense to want the "best" which is generally equated to most expensive. (I think we all know that's not necessarily true, but by and large a buyer is going to feel better having work done at Stevens than at Bobs mobile mechanic, no matter how good Bob is)

The engineering fee for painting over mild corrosion on a non critical part is a good example. As a buyer would you rather hear "we sanded and painted some corrosion" or "we sent detailed photos to Textron who did an engineering analysis on the spot of corrosion found and gave us a detailed remediation plan that we then followed (aka sand and paint)"? One costs 150 bucks and one 2150 but if you're not paying for it which would you prefer?

Big shops have big overhead: high paid employees, marketing, big insurance policies, fancy facilities on big name airports etc etc. Big overhead means higher prices across the board.

Exactly.
If the seller is paying, it only makes sense to want the "best" which is generally equated to most expensive. (I think we all know that's not necessarily true, but by and large a buyer is going to feel better having work done at Stevens than at Bobs mobile mechanic, no matter how good Bob is)

The engineering fee for painting over mild corrosion on a non critical part is a good example. As a buyer would you rather hear "we sanded and painted some corrosion" or "we sent detailed photos to Textron who did an engineering analysis on the spot of corrosion found and gave us a detailed remediation plan that we then followed (aka sand and paint)"? One costs 150 bucks and one 2150 but if you're not paying for it which would you prefer?

Big shops have big overhead: high paid employees, marketing, big insurance policies, fancy facilities on big name airports etc etc. Big overhead means higher prices across the board.

Name the shop and when this occurred. Since it is bankrupt and gone, should be no reason to not be open abut it.


Without specifics, I discount it. it seems very clear you are spreading FUD, trying to alarm people about small shops with horror stories that don't give any specifics about the situation.

I have specifics, pictures, details, etc.

Mike C.

Name the shop and when this occurred. Since it is bankrupt and gone, should be no reason to not be open abut it.


Without specifics, I discount it. it seems very clear you are spreading FUD, trying to alarm people about small shops with horror stories that don't give any specifics about the situation.

I have specifics, pictures, details, etc.

Mike C.

Clint, I wasn’t referring to OEM exclusively on purpose.