Michael, PC-24 “gen2” is here. Lots of improvements in serial numbers 212+

Because the engines are so far back, there was a lot of trimming while on one engine due to power changes. However, serial numbers 212+ have auto yaw trim which takes all of the trimming out. Basically, you loose an engine at v1, rudder boost kicks in, pilot presses on rudder to keep it going straight, at 50’ agl engage the yaw damper, and put your feet on the floor. System takes care of the rudder trim at 1/2 trapezoid into the good engine until you land. I think this will save lives, single engine ops is now super easy. I don’t think the Phenom or CJ4 has anything like that?

That's an awkward spot for a lav.

Chip-

Is that covered in your insurance policy?

I think it is common to see insurance limits that specify hard surface runways only for the more expensive planes like this.

Might want to check to make sure since it could be very expensive if something happens and you aren't covered.

Mike C.

Brent -

Thank you for that input and context. That explains a lot.

Richard -

The PC-24 didn't meet your missions need. Could you elaborate?

I agree about checking the insurance policy. In the 14 years that I have been taking care of our insurance we have not had any runway requirements listed in our policies. I would not take either airplane into an unpaved strip anyway. Our Ultra is not approved for it and our C340 prop tips are way to close to the ground.

Isn’t the cabin volume with a flat floor have a lot of unusable extra space? Plus, pc24 has cargo inside which increases cabin vouke over Phenom, right?

Tube still not very tall. Watch a 6’3” person wiggle into last of the 8 seats for a big guy, or unfurl that toilet.

Piaggio cabin, for ref - is 393 cubic feet. My shoulders rub wall in Phenom and appear they would in 24 too until you slide seats into aisle. That’s my reason for not ordering a new 10mm jet and I am sticking to it:)

I have also seen the useful load numbers on two different pc24s and it seems like putting 8 people in it and going far is a challenge. Wonder how that compares to Phenom?

He (CEO & Owner of the company) doesn't need the cargo door, the unimproved capability, and wants something with longer legs, so he can do Houston - Hawaii nonstop. Our most common mission in the PC24 is back and forth between Houston, his home in Hawaii, Calgary, Fort Mac, the East Coast, and Bermuda. Normally 3-5 of us, plus crew.

I want a Citation X. He wants a new Gulfstream. It's his checkbook, I just sit in the back.

Anthony,
PC-24 cabin is 501 cubic feet with an additional 90 cubic feet of cargo space. It's huge! A flat floor is nice to move around, in addition, I saw this setup a few weeks ago. The aircraft was equipped with a wheel chair lift in the cargo door and had the aft cargo partition removed, once loaded, move the wheel chair next to the seat and slide over into the seat. This configuration, they had one of the rear seats moved so the wheel chair could be rolled next to the other seat.



Go to NBAA next month and check out the Phenom and 24 cabins side by side.



Well, you don't need to worry with the cabin anyway. The 24 has a nice wide and roomy cockpit too...




The 24 'gen2' MSN 212+ did have a weight reduction program, but I have yet to see any real basic empty weights. I do know some of the earlier serial numbers have limited payload when topped off.

Your mission profile says "Sovereign". KHOU to KHTO would be doable non stop sometimes, but one stop on the west coast makes it very easy when you can't.

Citation X - in the shop a lot. Less range than Sovereign.

Gulfstream V - much higher opex. Non stop to Hawaii everyday though.

Mike C.

Your mission profile says "Sovereign". KHOU to KHTO would be doable non stop sometimes, but one stop on the west coast makes it very easy when you can't.

Citation X - in the shop a lot. Less range than Sovereign.

Gulfstream V - much higher opex. Non stop to Hawaii everyday though.

Mike C.

He (CEO & Owner of the company) doesn't need the cargo door, the unimproved capability, and wants something with longer legs, so he can do Houston - Hawaii nonstop. Our most common mission in the PC24 is back and forth between Houston, his home in Hawaii, Calgary, Fort Mac, the East Coast, and Bermuda. Normally 3-5 of us, plus crew.

I want a Citation X. He wants a new Gulfstream. It's his checkbook, I just sit in the back.

Further on the PC-24 noise issue:

On 6/18/21 at 10:22 local time a PC-24, N281EB departed SMO and read an astounding 98.9 dB. This is 157 percent of allowable and the highest number I ever remember for a Stage 3 airplane. A Lear 25 reads lower than that. A Gulfstream II reads lower than that.

Another PC 24, departed SMO on 6/17/21 at 13:24 local and read 95.7 dB which is 108 percent of allowable. That is believable and probably a matter of technique.

But 98.9 is incredible.

As a comparison, I used to consistently get Gulfstream IV's out of SMO, fueled for the east coast at or below 89.0 dB or 50 percent of allowable.

I think the PC-24 is going to have noise issues at a great many airports.

What frigging noise instruments are they using.
The PC24 is most definitely no noiser than any of the other jets around.

I'll bet that Cezzna is payin local politicians and judges in this case.....backed up of course by Embraerrr.

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Howard,
Those sound levels reported for the 24 are interesting. Pilatus documents the noise levels in the AFM and the highest noise level listed is 92 EPNL, EPNdB with no special procedures to meet that level. There are a few differences in the 24’s engines compared to other Williams installs.

- The 24 has different exhaust nozzles that use Williams Exact thrust vector technology and the Coanda effect to create a upward thrust vector.

- The aircraft has Automatically Thrust Reserve (ATR) which gives an additional ~200#s of thrust per engine for emergency conditions requiring more thrust such as an engine failure. ATR can be manually selected by pushing the thrust levers forward past a hard detent for conditions such as a wind shear escape. Maybe pilots accidentally took off in ATR mode?

Where is your data source? I’d be interested to see what a CJ4 reports as it has relatively the same FJ-44-4A engines. I’d also be interested in seeing the variance between 24s departing from that airport.

When a noise limit is busted, are pilots notified?