I've got to say, as impressive as many of the the beech structures are for their intricacy, that piper spar pictured above is equally impressive for its elegant simplicity

And yet those crappy pipers don't fall apart in the air unlike some Beech products.

As for this issue with the M600 it looks like Piper is being very responsible on this. No attempt to hide the issue, they will pay for the fix, and even maybe buy some airline tickets for those inconvenienced. I will say this is far more quality and service than the big as* f8cking Beech gave us on the circuit breaker AD.

If only a manufacture made such a machine.. cough cough Aerostar cough...

Jason

Charter? You could swap/pick up passengers without having the pilot to leave the cockpit or even shut down the engine. I've done it a couple of times myself picking a passenger (properly briefed on approaching the airplane from the rear) - works great.

I'm not partial to Malibus or their derivatives (just person preference) but I always thought my Cheyennes were built ruggedly; I know Ted Smith designed the A*, but that was a Piper later too, and that thing is built like a brick house.

Not sure where Piper got the bad rep...

My 65 Cherokee 180 and 75 Seneca II were both sturdy and reliable aircraft. Never had any issues with structural problems with any of them.

I think it is unfair to make blanket statements against Piper like that.

It is really upsetting that they'd have such a problem, but it happens. What matters is what they do about it when something like that turns up. Every aircraft manufacturer will face problems like this, as will every engine manufacturer and avionics manufacturer.

Speaking primarily of the "big three" piston aircraft manufacturers, I think Piper builds a quality machine, but IMHO Beechcraft builds the best aircraft from a quality and fit / finish standpoint, followed closely by Cessna and then Piper.

I've never thought Piper had quality issues and I think this is just one of those things that happens. We should all support New Piper, those guys came back in and kept building airplanes when many would have called it a day.

A lot of Piper stories good and bad, because there are a lot of Pipers out there. Has anyone built more planes than Piper? I think they are over 140,000 units. Hard to watch any runway very long and not see a Piper take off or land.

I think the New, New Piper is really changing. They are earnestly becoming customer centered. The CEO Simon Caldecott has give the customer service team a lot of support and leeway. This is just another example.

Anyway, it is probably paying off. They have seen quarter over quarter increases for the last several years. 1st quarter billings 23 mil, not bad compared to the other top billing small aircraft makers, Daher at 29, and Cirrus at 43. For all these companies, 1st quarter tends to be the lightest. Hope this doesn't set them back too much, but the good news is that all planes going forward won't have this problem.

Gotta go.. Walking to OSH. Come visit me at the MMOPA booth Saturday morning

Actually it's all about saving weight. If doors are what make you happy, it looks like the Trislander might be your only option.

Wow, where do I start. You are drawing a line from the engineers in the 1960's to a plane designed 50 years later, with no inside knowledge of the current issue. I have owned more than 10 Piper's, never had a problem with wings cracking - maybe I can just land better.

There's engineering, manufacturing, marketing and price. We all have different ways of doing things, and there are always trade offs. The current M600 does not appear to be an engineering design issue, but a manufacturing issue. This plagues all manufacturers - how about when Beech managed to ship several sets of faulty nose gears - one brand new B58 on its nose and they couldn't even track all 11 or so faulty sets down? Many airliners have had spar cracking issues, with fixes in the field and future production.

As to two doors - keep your slow, heavy, noisy BE24. Or go buy a new Mooney for three quarters - lets see how that works for them. I'm quite happy with my front and back door Seneca, as a lot of BE36 and BE58 owners are too. I think its a pretty well proven design/manufacturing/marketing/operating/price solution.

Life is challenging - I try to teach my kids that when the chips are down, its time to step up. There no point in yelling and screaming after a car crash or other incident, no point in assigning blame, pointing fingers, making accusations. Solve the immediate problem in the best possible way and the rest will fall into place.

Don

Wow, where do I start. You are drawing a line from the engineers in the 1960's to a plane designed 50 years later, with no inside knowledge of the current issue. I have owned more than 10 Piper's, never had a problem with wings cracking - maybe I can just land better.

There's engineering, manufacturing, marketing and price. We all have different ways of doing things, and there are always trade offs. The current M600 does not appear to be an engineering design issue, but a manufacturing issue. This plagues all manufacturers - how about when Beech managed to ship several sets of faulty nose gears - one brand new B58 on its nose and they couldn't even track all 11 or so faulty sets down? Many airliners have had spar cracking issues, with fixes in the field and future production.

As to two doors - keep your slow, heavy, noisy BE24. Or go buy a new Mooney for three quarters - lets see how that works for them. I'm quite happy with my front and back door Seneca, as a lot of BE36 and BE58 owners are too. I think its a pretty well proven design/manufacturing/marketing/operating/price solution.

Life is challenging - I try to teach my kids that when the chips are down, its time to step up. There no point in yelling and screaming after a car crash or other incident, no point in assigning blame, pointing fingers, making accusations. Solve the immediate problem in the best possible way and the rest will fall into place.

Don

This went from a spar SB to a discussion about doors. Interesting how so many of them skid sideways.

Aerostar did have the right idea, pilot is the last one in - and can be certain it's all buttoned up and the chocks are gone. It's also an easy step up and slide in.

Another of Ted Smith's design - the Twin Commander with the pilot door would be about the best layout I have ever seen. Cessna Caravan is pretty good too. The PC-12 must be the hardest to mount of any.

Bob


BTW please don't EVER allow a passenger to climb in over a wing with the engine running.

I don't get it...I am the last one in the Navajo, I close the door. PC-12 has two doors. Front one is airstair, seems like a good idea to me.

Chuck, are you back flying or still grounded?

Happy to say my bird passed inspection today. So gets put back together. Have to reseal the back of the fuel tanks, if it doesn't leak, back in the air early next week. Feel for those that didn't pass. Heard there are some out there. Not sure how many. Was a milling issue, where the spar bends to meet the upper and lower parts of the wing. The parts were outsourced because Piper, which normally makes almost everything in house for their aircraft, did not have a mill that could machine that particular part. My understanding is that they do now. lesson learned, I guess. Heard some planes didn't pass. Feel for those guys/gals.