Like you, Frank, I wish Garmin had added the Aerostar to their AML. With an all-Garmin panel, what's the sense of installing a non-Garmin autopilot? But they didn't and I wanted to be rid of the King 200.

The difference between a KFC 200 and the Genesys 3100 is night and day. I'm glad I dumped King.

I don't know what bad stuff you've heard about the 3100. Most of the complaints I've seen have been about delivery delays and difficulty getting older units upgraded with the VNAV bezel. I've only seen a pitch oscillation once in two years flying with the 3100 and it was extinguished by disconnecting the autopilot and then re-engaging. There has been an update issued to the AEST config file on the 3100 since then. It's such a non-problem I haven't even bothered flying to the shop to have the file loaded. Why make a special trip just for that and waste an hour of the shop's time.

Trey,

I had the KFC 200 in an upgraded 602P with the U2A engines. It worked fine; not great. I upgraded the avionics from analog to an Aspen 2500; and it worked even better. The guy I sold me plane too, said it works even better now with the GTN and G600 PFD than the Aspens.

Basically, what I am saying is, the old analog based A/P is pretty descent. However, the analog A/P (anecdotally) is very dependent on the quality of the data feed.

Tim

My point is why go to the time an effort of a "brand new" Garmin glass panel but leave a fifty-year-old analog autopilot in place?

An installed 3100 isn't cheap. But I'm hoping I can charge a small premium versus a similar airplane with legacy A/P if I ever sell. Garmin glass plus Century IV v. Garmin glass plus Genesys 3100 -- which would you bid on first? (The former is going to have me wondering - where else did they skimp?) Meanwhile I get to enjoy all the features like VNAV profiles on the GTN750. Good riddance to the KFC200 and that "down" toggle switch.

And yes, I'm a 600 and don't know what's unique about the 3100 installed in a 700 that would cause it to become problematic. I tend to dismiss comments like, "I flew with an S-Tec once and didn't like how it captured altitude." That's because I've got two years experience flying with the 3100. I am also grateful Genesys certified the A/P for the Aerostar, something Garmin has not done with theirs and has no plans to do.

The KFC-200 paired with digital AHRS and Altitude preselect is a really really solid and capable autopilot. Once I replaced the analog gyro bits with a G500 its been flawless.

Talking to people that put the 3100 in their Aerostar there have been teething problems.
It does seems like some of proposing problems have been resolved via software patch.

Geo -700 flies a bit different than the 600, and most 700s are pretty fat and have further aft CG. Get your CG aft and try to hand fly at 25,000’… it’s pitch sensitive as hell. The autopilot needs to be pretty dialed in to perform well under those conditions… mix in a higher IAS and it seems to amplify the touchy-ness. The 700 also has this bob weight on the elevator which makes it heavier in pitch control and kinda goofy to land. I have a bad habit of playing the trumpet before touchdown, now I have an 8lb weight on my trumpet lol.

I’ve owned a short wing 600A, 601P and now a 700.

I have had a KFC-200 with an older non TXI G500 in a F33 circa 2021. It done just fine flying the plane.

When I done the panel upgrade in my A36 in 2023 I went with the GARMIN GFC 500. It does great. It’s paired with a 500 TXI / GTN 750.

The existing KFC-200 in my 601P does a great job, although I have no altitude preselect. It’s paired with a GI-275. I only miss the altitude preselect.

My 700 that’s currently undergoing repairs from a gear up landing (Wasn’t me) has the KFC-200. That’s the plane that I will be doing all glass in, similar to my A36. I just hate to leave an analog AP in the plane if there is a viable digital upgrade option / solution.

I have been told by at lease three avionics shops to not even consider the 3100. They all sited hardware issues and in one instance an issue where the main control head had been replaced three times in six months. That was as of this past spring. I haven’t followed up anymore with him since then. I don’t believe that the issues that I am hearing about are “airplane” or model specific.

But none of this is first hand experience for me, I am just trying to come up with the right AP to install with my panel upgrade, or simply leave the KFC-200 alone for now. I hate to attempt to fix what’s not broken, but I also hate to keep running old technology if there is a better option available.

Has anyone seen a field approval for a GFC 600? With the control tubes vs cables it has to be doable, right? Would the weight / resistance of the “Bob Weight” have an impact on the operation of any digital AP in the 700?

Thanks, Frank

Frank, I offered Garmin my 600 as a mule for their autopilot long before the pandemic. They didn't show any interest.

Trey, you go faster the further aft your CG. I'm as far back in the envelope as I can push it.

I don't know how you guys still flying the KFC200 do it. I bought a KI295 off another Aerostar as a spare. (They could do the 225 which you couldn't with a 600.) Lucky I had that spare when my altitude board went out since King no longer services that component.

(Anybody want two KI295s plus servos, instruments, and switches PM me.)

Yes, there have been a bunch of King Airs with problematic 3100 installs. I'd search out an avionics shop with satisfied 3100 customers. I don't know if it's cable tensioning or leveling that causes the porpoising. My shop messed up the 3100 install because they read the notes on the wiring diagrams wrong. Is that Genesys' or my shop's fault?

I have done two full Garmin upgrades, A G3X in the Glasair including AP, and the G600TXI in the Aerostar. So far I have been underwhelmed with the Garmin AP in the Glasiar, love the features, but it really struggles with maneuvering the airplane at anything over 150kts. The "legacy" KFC200 in the A* by comparison simply does a far better job with a fast airplane. Yes, It would be nice the have stuff like rate select rather than blipping the switch, but considering the upgrade added altitude preselect, I can't complain.

Too much of the new stuff is really cool, until you deal with the teething issues, or flat out failures while they work out the bugs. If your 200 is still doing the job, i'd think twice before replacing it.

Jeff

How did you do that?

Believe it or not I heard jack Brush’s CG was very far forward!!! (From the new owner of the speed record airplane)

My 700 is 165.69”, my old 601P was 163.96”. So I guess not a huge differance.

I can understand the G3X not keeping up. They are slower than molasses running up hill on a winters day in Chicago. The G3X is like iphone 3 technology where the 500 & 600 TXI are more similar to an iPhone 15.

That's not saying much for the big G... Especially considering the 47 year old BK unit more akin to Ma Bell technology wise, came as original equipment and flies the A* very well regardless of the airspeed.

Jeff

That's not saying much for the big G... Especially considering the 47 year old BK unit more akin to Ma Bell technology wise, came as original equipment and flies the A* very well regardless of the airspeed.

Jeff

I think you've got that backwards, Trey. Tail flies down so the further aft CG, the less work for the tail fighting to keep the nose up. Don't you slide your seat all the way aft at cruise altitude? Downside of aft CG is reduced pitch stability.

Jack's airplane may have had a forward CG when empty but I doubt he was loading it that way.

I think you've got that backwards, Trey. Tail flies down so the further aft CG, the less work for the tail fighting to keep the nose up. Don't you slide your seat all the way aft at cruise altitude? Downside of aft CG is reduced pitch stability.

Jack's airplane may have had a forward CG when empty but I doubt he was loading it that way.

Anyone flying a Century IV? My 601P has one and it’s pretty well unusable. Having just done an autopilot upgrade on my Cessna 180, I hate to go through the time and $$ to do that to the Aerostar. I mainly want it for level cruise flight more than anything. I sent a couple components from it to Autopilots Central but it needs a couple more components repaired. I should be under $8k getting it all working perfectly. Just curious how well they work when they’re working perfectly, I’ve never flown another airplane with a Century IV. Would some sort of GPSS converter be of significant value (GTN650) or does the NAV function work ok?