BeechTalk - BT - The definitive Piaggio P180 Avanti thread.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Nov 2023, 19:15

Username Protected wrote:

Is Garmin ever going to do the GFC600? That would provide incentive for RVSM along with a new autopilot.

What does IJSC say about it? If anyone was going to certify it I would expect them to be doing it. Joe Hensley would know.

That’s what I expect will happen - GFC600 required, done by IJSC.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Nov 2023, 19:56

Icjc is not the only installer of garmin in Piaggio. They have just probably done more than anyone else.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 18 Nov 2023, 19:57

Username Protected wrote:

Rumor is that’s what put the kibosh on the MU2 GFC project. MHIA wanted it done by their service centers only. Garmin wanted any dealer to do it.

That sounds plausible. MHIA has a way of sabotaging things with arbitrary requirements. Their ability to judge what would be a good direction has faltered in the past (for example, the aborted IS&S panel upgrade). I suspect this came down to money, MHIA was going to put something in the pot and wanted exclusivity, Garmin said no, MHIA walked.

Quote:

How does this work for the jet tech 525 GFC600 installs? My guess is that no one else can put in the AP except them.

JetTech has licensed their Garmin panel STCs to other shops for installations. I don't know why they wouldn't do the same for an AP STC.

Quote:

If ICJS can set a precedent with Garmin on the Piaggio as an exclusive installer, I hope they can run with it on MU2s.

It all depends on who is paying for it. If IJSC pays for the STC work, including contracting and paying Garmin, then they can own it. If Garmin pays, then IJSC can't own it. Some sort of middle ground is possible, but complex.

In the end, Garmin should do the work. If they get an AP STC for Piaggio, that will drive a large amount of collateral revenue when people are buying EFIS, EIS, audio panels, transponders, navigators, etc. The AP unlocks about $300K revenue for EACH AIRPLANE. Do the math, Garmin!

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Nov 2023, 00:32

Username Protected wrote:

... I was told by ICJC that the I AP is digital and that you can drive it directly from all the garmin boxes post panel upgrade? If they had rvsm curves everything would work wo original boxes.

As evidence that is probably true... I offer the following pages from the APS-65 Install manual, which suggest that the APC-65A variant (which is installed in the Piaggio) has a digital bus for ADC data.

I don't know if the G600 can output the exact data stream needed - "CSDB"? - but it implies it might not be too difficult, i.e. maybe just software, if any change required at all.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Nov 2023, 01:38

Username Protected wrote:

Garmin does not output CSDB data. But Blue Avionics has a box that will convert ARINC 429 air data to CSDB. Not sure if anyone has certified this exact application.

Insightful. IJSC already uses a Blue Avionics device for something PL21/ADSB related per this page. So they probably are well aware of the CSDB gizmo too.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 26 Nov 2023, 19:23

Topic: prop touch up paint for P180.

Anyone have a touch up paint they've found that works well, maybe a high temp enamel or something? Specific brand and type would be super helpful.

I bought a can of the Sherwin Williams Polane paint as described in the maintenance manual to do some prop touch up. It didn't work particularly well, kind of melted and dripped after a flight.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Nov 2023, 08:06

I have been told you have to prime then top coat prop touch ups.

Also, what did you use for surface prep? I did some wing spots recently and tried a few strategies. The section where I sanded and prepped more has held up better.

Need to find a better flexible bondo. What paint shops have recommended to me sucks.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Nov 2023, 18:36

Username Protected wrote:

I have been told you have to prime then top coat prop touch ups.

Also, what did you use for surface prep? I did some wing spots recently and tried a few strategies. The section where I sanded and prepped more has held up better.

Need to find a better flexible bondo. What paint shops have recommended to me sucks.

I preface all of this by saying I am terrible with paint and kind of hate it. So, less work the better for me.

For surface prep, I just cleaned really well with Isopropyl alcohol. It was nice and clean. But using sandpaper seems like a danger area to me if it doesn’t work.

What would you prime with? Zinc chromate? Alodyne? I think Alodyne is called out in the manual but… what I have looks more like there is some Zinc Chromate under there.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Nov 2023, 18:39

Piaggio Avanti II+ retrofit announced! Well, kinda - no detail about what’s actually done. But maybe a sign of some things happening.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... -avanti-ii

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Nov 2023, 18:50

Article states plans are to announce new owner for Piaggio next month.
Fingers crossed

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Dec 2023, 01:12

Username Protected wrote:

Article states plans are to announce new owner for Piaggio next month.

Tesla Aviation.

The autopilot will require a subscription and the entire instrument panel will be reduced to one screen in the center.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Dec 2023, 18:43

Who would be dream owner of Piaggio?

I'm not sure, but I do know that any of the "big iron" corporate jet producers would probably not be great, like Gulfstream or Bombardier. They have a tendency to skew pricing and support to what the big corporate or governments can afford.

Textron? Maybe, but probably not a good fit as it competes with all their Citation stuff.

Daher seems like a good fit on paper, but I also know that Daher are dollar-for-dollar one of the most expensive when it comes to parts etc.

Tecnam? That would be a good fit. They come from GA, understand value and have lots of technical expertise. That would prob be the best option.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Dec 2023, 19:00

Username Protected wrote:

Article states plans are to announce new owner for Piaggio next month.

Tesla Aviation.

The autopilot will require a subscription and the entire instrument panel will be reduced to one screen in the center.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 01 Dec 2023, 20:31

Username Protected wrote:

Who would be dream owner of Piaggio?

See Ed Fenster's post a few pages back about a group led by the Porsche family...

Username Protected · **Posted:** 02 Dec 2023, 07:20

If I was a betting man, it will be the Greran family, a family office based on India and not the Porsche family.

Greran was the top bidder in the last round when the plug was pulled.