I am not sure what world or "industry" you are referring to. In the aviation industry there are three types of operators - Commercial Operators - ie airlines or charter companies that provide air transport services for passengers or cargo for hire - Private Operators - individuals or companies who operate aircraft not for hire, for personal or business use and then you have the Military.

This is not only how the FAA sees it, but everyone else including insurance companies, Customs and CBP (when getting your overflight permits for example), maintenance facilities, the NBAA, etc. An operator is the person or entity that has operational control of an aircraft - its as simple as that. If you use other jargon as aircraft brokers that is a different thing.

I am not sure what world or "industry" you are referring to. In the aviation industry there are three types of operators - Commercial Operators - ie airlines or charter companies that provide air transport services for passengers or cargo for hire - Private Operators - individuals or companies who operate aircraft not for hire, for personal or business use and then you have the Military.

This is not only how the FAA sees it, but everyone else including insurance companies, Customs and CBP (when getting your overflight permits for example), maintenance facilities, the NBAA, etc. An operator is the person or entity that has operational control of an aircraft - its as simple as that. If you use other jargon as aircraft brokers that is a different thing.

It is clear not everybody lives there.

I'm an operator. I have an owner, a director of maintenance, and a chief pilot.

I know corporate and charter operators who have 1 airplane.

I know private owners who have 3 airplanes.

They are all operators in the legal and common use of the word.

Mike C.

I spend about 8-10 hours a day, 5-6 days a week immersed in aviation, conversations with owners, pilots, mechanics, avionics techs, managers of various sorts, dealers, brokers, etc. and yes there is a vernacular. Bruce knows exactly what I speak of, because he has been immersed in it longer than I have.

If Mike and Alex are actually unaware, that is quite surprising. It’s more likely that when they read something I type, they wring their little hands, hovering over their little keyboards, trying to figure out how to attack me.

You failed this time boys, try again.

Not a fast learner are you Chip? They did not fail. They got under your skin. You’re the one that failed. Your hole gets deeper and deeper.

I'm with Chip on this one. His explanation makes perfect sense and as he said, his use of the term is not the way that the FAA or CBP.

In your (and my) case, the owner, operator, chief pilot, and DOM are all the same person, you (or me). Someone that has a fleet of aircraft has different people filling these roles (likely also has a scheduling department as well) and would want to have consistency across the fleet for parts and service.

Consistently unavailable is a Pyrrhic victory no matter how many people are on the task.

Chip, you do realize that this board is full of prospective future clients, right? Guys and gals with money, flying Bonanzas, Barons, and King Airs and looking to move up at some point.

This thread (which is amazingly now 162 pages!) serves as an advertisement for your services and your character as a person to potentially hire and interact with on a very important transaction.

Re-read some of your posts (for example the one I quoted), put your ego away for a moment, and think about what your future clients might conclude about working with you in the future.

Chip, you do realize that this board is full of prospective future clients, right? Guys and gals with money, flying Bonanzas, Barons, and King Airs and looking to move up at some point.

This thread (which is amazingly now 162 pages!) serves as an advertisement for your services and your character as a person to potentially hire and interact with on a very important transaction.

Re-read some of your posts (for example the one I quoted), put your ego away for a moment, and think about what your future clients might conclude about working with you in the future.

Not a fast learner are you Chip? They did not fail. They got under your skin. You’re the one that failed. Your hole gets deeper and deeper.

I have a theory. My opinion is that Chip's business caters to people who need a jet, can afford a jet, but are insufficiently educated in the relevant subject matter or experienced enough to make a relatively informed decision to buy the right jet. Those "operators" need help, have money and are more than willing to pay for the help. With the right sales pitch, they can be convinced that by hiring the right "expert" they are saving money overall.

People like Mike, Alex, and myself who are highly technically inclined, well educated and passionate about their aircraft causes a problem. Being labelled as "operators" challenges the basis upon which his business is founded, because we have money and knowledge and don't really need an acquisition partner. We are a threat in that ecosystem.

My perspective, having owned 4 aircraft now, is that no matter how much you spend and how carefully you research the paperwork, mechanical condition, and operation of any used aircraft - there will still be things that have to be addressed in the first couple of years of ownership. I say that having purchased (and operated) 3 aircraft that were 50+ years old, and one that was 2 years old. The 2 year old had the most issues, in fact.

I wish Chip the best of luck in his business. When I'm ready to move up to turbines and jets, I will not be working with someone who so passionately argues with knowledgeable and experienced people who I respect. I'll probably work with someone like me (an owner-operator-pilot) who has owned the type I'm pursuing.

But there will always be people who have lots of money and desire but lack expertise, so I'm sure services to help them will remain part of the industry.

This is seemingly always the case.

I think part of it is that a new owner is hyper sensitive to anything not exactly right. I don't think that is a bad thing, it can catch problems the previous owner was ignoring or perhaps not aware of.

I know my Citation was very much like that. A lot of small issues which can remain hidden for a long time. Now the plane is proving to be very reliable.


I see a lot of relatively new planes having problems. I also hear a lot of owners saying they don't want an old plane. So it doesn't always seem like reality matches perception in many cases.


That's the best way, find someone who fits your profile generally and see what they know. There's no better expert than someone with actual experience in owning the plane you are considering.

There are also type clubs and forums. I learned a huge amount reading the CJP (Citation Jet Pilots) website when I first started to consider a Citation. I asked some dumb questions. Now I'm answering those for others. These resources also make hiring an expert less needed for many individuals.


I'm convinced any moderately intelligent person can become a type expert in a reasonably short period by reading forums and asking questions. A hired expert is really for the owner who wants to be mostly hands off and wants to throw money at it instead of their time.

The conundrum, of course, is that it takes time to find and hire the right expert. If you don't know the subject, it can be really hard to identify the true experts out there.

Mike C.

I really dont see anyone pitching a fair fight; Both sides have their considerations. Instead I see a broker feeling threatened (good read Mark), and at least an MIT grad that did not finish first in his class so he's choosing other places to finish first. All in all, a bunch of EGO's whose true passion for aviation is suspect.

Case in point; Go to a doctor and tell him you want a second opinion. If he gets defensive be sure youre NOT dealing with someone that has a passion for medicine but someone most likely in it for his own gains.

Been fun, and actually quite informative watching this stuff. Im sorta into psychology and reading people. And I also have quite the passion for aviation.

You guys continue to overlook the obvious, you think all jet owners / buyers have inflated egos, because YOU have inflated egos.

I don’t work well with egotistical people, the irony is, Mike C. and I would do fine together, Matt and Jan, I am not sure about and I wouldn’t work for Alex.

We’ve been in business for ten years, we have been steady booked with clients for the last eight. We are one of only three acquisition exclusive firms in the country (if I have overlooked anyone let me know) so, we have a very niche but stable market. Absolutely no need to kiss butt on Beechtalk to try to get more clients.

If someone is even considering hiring an acquisition firm, I expect they will call me and talk to me and find out that I’m not the egotistical loudmouth jerk that you guys portray.

Beechtalk is entertainment and you guys are fun to play with.

I'm with Chip on this one. His explanation makes perfect sense and as he said, his use of the term is not the way that the FAA or CBP.

In your (and my) case, the owner, operator, chief pilot, and DOM are all the same person, you (or me). Someone that has a fleet of aircraft has different people filling these roles (likely also has a scheduling department as well) and would want to have consistency across the fleet for parts and service.