BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Nov 2017, 00:23

Thanks for getting back on topic guys. I find myself in this conundrum and everyone's comments are of interest. The MU-2 is also still in the running, despite my past personal acquaintance with Pascal.

So now I'm ONLY down to Merlin IIIB/C, Cheyenne, Conquest, MU-2 and TBM on the TP side and Citation 501 and Eclipse on the jet side. I'd love for the KA300/350 to fall into this category, as it is the plane that I fly regularly for a client, but they're just too popular on the market and powered by expensive PT6s. It's a fun problem to be pondering and a huge learning curve - particularly the Mx realities of each model, as many are now 30+ years old and into their second or third TBO intervals.

It's nice to save bucks and buy a depreciated airframe at the front end, but what keeps me up at night is the fear of shoveling a multiple of those savings on the back end on ADS-B, panel upgrades, paint / interior upgrades, unscheduled Mx events or other surprises. You can't have everything (at least not on a 750K budget + reasonable operating costs!)

Keep up the writing - and do try to stay on topic! : ))

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Nov 2017, 02:40

Username Protected wrote:

Why would anyone spend millions of dollars for safety considerations on an airplane that costs thousands an hour to operate to save the cost of a copilot?

The same reason someone who doesn't spend as much. Convenience and cost.

Realistically, you are probably increasing your safety more in a PA46 with a second pilot than a biz jet having a second pilot. So why don't you get a copilot for your flights?

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Nov 2017, 03:01

Username Protected wrote:

I have $.75M - $1M burning a hole in my pocket, and I want single pilot with 1500 nm range. Don’t care about single or multi engine. Obviously pressurized, preferably a nice cabin with potty. Less than 100 hours per year (I’ll may the A36 for knocking around), so operating cost isn’t high up the list, but huge unexpected maintenance costs would be. Real capital depreciation also a consideration.

Jetprop Commander, Merlin IIIC, Cheyenne IIIA, Conguest II, or 501SP with Eagle II mod?

You are a little short on the Eagle II. Probably need $1.2M for that one. If you can stretch the budget, it is the clear winner but also the most cost per mile.

The economical turboprop twins, TPE331 powered, are Merlins, Commander, Conquest II. I'd take the Conquest II in that group though the others a bigger cabins. MU2 does not have 1500 nm range.

I'm not a fan of Cheyenne or King Air, PT6 expensive to own and operate.

There are a lot of jets under $500K that could fit the bill, mostly legacy Citations like II, SII with JT15. They have the range, but require SPE for be flown SP. The Citation V is under $1M and has the same issue. The Citations can be set up with a low use inspection plan which would help with a 100 hrs/year use case.

TBM and PC12 too expensive to buy.

The turbine equipment doesn't usually have large unexpected bills. They run and run without problems.

In summary, I favor:

$800K: Conquest II
$1.2M: 501SP Eagle II

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Nov 2017, 04:34

Username Protected wrote:

I really like the original question but to make it more specific - what's the best aircraft for $750k acquisition with an annual operating budget <$100k/year flying ~100hrs/year with an average trip length of 600mi and payload of 800bs? I feel like this captures the sweet spot between guys that spend the $1.5-$2.5m on light jets and my current situation in a P-Baron where I'm growing tired of these flights taking 3 hours+ southbound in the winter.....

Chris

Chris I can help you.
First a couple of questions:
What are your destinations out of MMU?
How many times per month do you fly to them?
How long do you stay at your destination once you get there?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Nov 2017, 08:55

Username Protected wrote:

Wow, finally back to the topic.

I have $.75M - $1M burning a hole in my pocket, and I want single pilot with 1500 nm range. Don’t care about single or multi engine. Obviously pressurized, preferably a nice cabin with potty. Less than 100 hours per year (I’ll may the A36 for knocking around), so operating cost isn’t high up the list, but huge unexpected maintenance costs would be. Real capital depreciation also a consideration.

Jetprop Commander, Merlin IIIC, Cheyenne IIIA, Conguest II, or 501SP with Eagle II mod?

Or just buy a $1M TBM or Eclipse and stop once for fuel and to use someone else’s bathroom?

Or a 3 way partnership on a PC-12?

Mustang

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Nov 2017, 09:01

To all those thinking this thread went "off topic"..... It didn't.

You need to know all 17 pages of this stuff if you are buying in this price range. It's all valid.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Nov 2017, 09:05

Username Protected wrote:

Mustang

Not 1500 nm range. Are you reading the thread?

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Nov 2017, 09:10

Username Protected wrote:

Mustang

Not 1500 nm range. Are you reading the thread?

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Nov 2017, 09:16

Username Protected wrote:

Wow, finally back to the topic.

I have $.75M - $1M burning a hole in my pocket, and I want single pilot with 1500 nm range. Don’t care about single or multi engine. Obviously pressurized, preferably a nice cabin with potty. Less than 100 hours per year (I’ll may the A36 for knocking around), so operating cost isn’t high up the list, but huge unexpected maintenance costs would be. Real capital depreciation also a consideration.

Jetprop Commander, Merlin IIIC, Cheyenne IIIA, Conguest II, or 501SP with Eagle II mod?

Or just buy a $1M TBM or Eclipse and stop once for fuel and to use someone else’s bathroom?

Or a 3 way partnership on a PC-12?

Mustang

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Nov 2017, 09:20

Username Protected wrote:

Can't buy one for $1 million yet. I'd much rather have one than one of the legacy turbo props though even with a stop required.

I disagree. You haven't tried. Even if you did have to bump up a couple hundred thousand it would be worth it.

The legacy turboprops are getting really, really long in the tooth. It's 2018. I forget too.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Nov 2017, 09:23

Username Protected wrote:

The legacy turboprops are getting really, really long in the tooth.

OWT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Nov 2017, 09:27

Username Protected wrote:

The legacy turboprops are getting really, really long in the tooth.

OWT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Nov 2017, 09:36

BTW, what you're all describing - Crandall's jet speeds, Crandalls modern airframe, Mike C's turboprop operating and fuel costs, OP's below $750K purchase price, OP's request for long range...

...is an Avanti.

I know you think I'm a stuck record and delusional on this subject, but if you actually stop and consider it all, it's the only aircraft that can satisfy all those things in one. The only one.

:peace:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Nov 2017, 09:38

Username Protected wrote:

I know you think I'm a stuck record and delusional on this subject, but if you actually stop and consider it all, it's the only aircraft that can satisfy all those things in one. The only one.

:peace:

Assuming you could ever sell it.

I love Avanti's too but I'm highly averse to getting stuck with an asset nobody wants and nobody wants to work on.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Nov 2017, 10:26

Well I took a break from BT over thanksgiving and come back and a war has broken out! I should clarify one thing; the budget of $750,000 is not including the surgeons. So essentially this guy is going to buy an airplane with his money and then may form a partnership with surgeons afterwards. He can’t get them to commit at the moment

Best aircraft for $750,000?