BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 May 2016, 07:36

Username Protected wrote:

It is not trivial to move from building one off experimental aircraft to demonstrate to gaining a production certificate from the FAA to mass produce certificated aircraft. http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/production_approvals/prod_cert/

Icon A5 isn't certified, it's an LSA. I am a bit unclear on what kind of approvals are needed to manufacture LSAs. Can someone explain?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 May 2016, 10:52

Certification (production or type design) aside, a company needs to be able to build the planes efficiently to make money, and I've heard they're not even close to break-even with the existing build/assembly methods. With composites, that means they didn't do a good job on the initial design since the tooling and assembly philosophy cannot be separated from design. They have to be done concurrently to have a good product that can be produced effectively.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Oct 2016, 11:17

Any new news on this thing? Have they delivered their 185 some odd planes they were suppose to deliver to customers this year? I have a friend who's getting trained in them in Tampa to be an instructor/demo pilot for them. Guess she has to fly to California cause there is only one person who can sign her off/endorses her to instruct. Seems like it would be hard to instruct in a plane that nobody owns.... :shrug:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Oct 2016, 11:30

I believe they revised the delivery schedule for 2016 down to 15-16 airplanes with most going to the training centers. As I recall, the press release discussed a bit of a fall back and regroup on the manufacturing front.

Since that time they announced a new factory in Mexico (Tijuana?) to do the carbon fiber sub assemblies.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Oct 2016, 11:43

Username Protected wrote:

... a company needs to be able to build the planes efficiently to make money...

That is what's going to make or break them.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Feb 2017, 19:59

I'm an Icon position holder and received an email from an Icon rep today, looking for me to purchase an aircraft to lease back to them for 12-24 months.

The deal isn't very compelling (buy an airplane, let them use it for 12-24 months, you can use it three days a month with 10 days notice paying only for fuel as compensation).

But the most interesting part of the email was the last bit:

Quote:

NEW A5 1.2:

a. Owner’s option to keep their current A5 1.0 or exchange for new A5 1.2
b. Any additional options owner chooses are at an additional cost
c. ICON pays sales taxes so new aircraft costs owner no additional funds

Not sure what an Icon A5 1.2 is and how it might different from the current model, but seems unwise to announce a new product to early adopters before you've even really started delivering the first version.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Feb 2017, 20:04

Icon replied lickity split and said:

"The 1.2 is the next production run of the ICON A5. The aircraft is the same model but will have number product improvements over the initial production run. These will be invisible to the naked eye but provide a much better user experience. For example: A stiffer nose gear leg that will allow the aircraft to be taxied much easier. The 1.2 will incorporate the learnings we have had with the 2000+ fleet hours we have on the 1.0s."

So it sounds like it's just the plane they intend to mass produce.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Feb 2017, 20:09

Username Protected wrote:

Not sure what an Icon A5 1.2 is and how it might different from the current model, but seems unwise to announce a new product to early adopters before you've even really started delivering the first version.

I count only 4 A5s not registered to Icon itself.

I'd bet all of them are in the lease back agreement you were offered.

It is not good to be owner of an early serial number, so bide your time until the truly figure out the bugs and how to build them.

The fact they give them version numbers like software is disconcerting.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Feb 2017, 20:10

Username Protected wrote:

So it sounds like it's just the plane they intend to mass produce.

Until version 1.4.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Feb 2017, 20:29

Username Protected wrote:

So it sounds like it's just the plane they intend to mass produce.

Until version 1.4.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 03 Feb 2017, 20:43

"Never fly the 1.0 version of anything" or is that quote "never run the 1.0 version of new software" or is it "never fly the A model of anything" Oh well, just wait.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 04 Feb 2017, 04:09

They just don't want the buyers to actually own the airplanes, do they?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 04 Feb 2017, 10:53

Username Protected wrote:

So it sounds like it's just the plane they intend to mass produce.

Did they mention WHEN they were going to mass produce? :shrug:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 04 Feb 2017, 11:23

Icon 1.0 then 1.3 then 1.5 then 1.7 then 2.0 then 2.5 then 2.8 then Canada. Buy one today and we promise to give you a new one for free in 4 years.

Oh wait, that's Eclipse...

Username Protected · **Posted:** 04 Feb 2017, 12:50

Username Protected wrote:

They just don't want the buyers to actually own the airplanes, do they?

Like software...