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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 27 Aug 2014, 15:59 
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AIRCRAFT VARIABLE COSTS

FUEL COST – Fuel cost per gallon is based on a Conklin & de Decker survey of a number of Fixed Base Operators (FBOs) at major general aviation airports in the United States. Price includes all taxes and fees.
FUEL BURN – The average fuel burn is depicted in gallons per hour for the make/model aircraft. All data is generally derived from flight manuals and is calculated at typical cruise speeds and includes ground fuel. Cruise altitude assumed for unpressurized aircraft is 8,000 feet. For pressurized aircraft a flight altitude corresponding to an 8,000 foot or less cabin altitude is used.
Fifteen percent is added to the final figure to account for less than ideal operating conditions. Many factors led us to add this extra 15%.
Pilot flying techniques - Using other than recommended power settings.
Air Traffic Control Restrictions - restricting the aircraft to less than optimum altitudes. Lower altitudes usually increase fuel burn.
Ground delays – Running engines while spending extra time on the ground.
Auxiliary Power Unit (APU) operation – Running the APU can amount to 20-30 gph.
Tankering Fuel - Carrying more fuel than is required for a single flight.
Jets – The fuel burn calculation includes taxi, take-off and climb, cruise, descent and landing for a 600 NM trip. This includes a crew of two at 200 lbs each (one for FAR 23 certified aircraft) and four passengers at 200 lbs each unless otherwise noted. Fuel for the NBAA IFR reserves for a 200 NM alternate is also included in the calculation.
Turboprops – The fuel burn calculation includes taxi, take-off and climb, cruise, descent and landing for a 300 NM trip. This includes a crew of two at 200 lbs each (one for aircraft 12,500 lbs MTOGW and under) and four passengers at 200 lbs each unless otherwise noted. Fuel for the NBAA IFR reserves for a 200 NM alternate is also included in the calculation.
Piston – The fuel burn calculation includes taxi, take-off and climb, cruise, descent and landing for a 200 NM trip. This includes a crew of one at 200 lbs and two passengers at 200 lbs each unless otherwise noted. 30 minute VFR reserve fuel is also included in the calculation.
Helicopter – Numerous surveys of helicopter operators have confirmed our fuel burn calculations. Cruise altitude is assumed to be 2,000 feet. The fuel burn calculation includes taxi, take-off and climb, cruise, descent and landing for a 50 NM trip. This includes a crew of two at 200 lbs each and four passengers at 200 lbs each unless otherwise noted.
FUEL ADDITIVES – The cost of fuel additives used for anti-icing or as a fungicide. Also includes the unscavenged engine oil on Rolls-Royce Viper engines.
LUBRICANTS (Piston Aircraft Only) – Cost of all lubricants such as engine oil and transmission oil.
MAINTENANCE - LABOR
Included – Routine scheduled (daily and minor inspections), unscheduled and on-condition maintenance labor required for the airframe and avionics along with the routine engine maintenance labor not covered by the Jet Support Services (JSSI) Complete guaranteed maintenance plan. Also includes all labor required for line replacement of parts, removal/replacement labor incident to overhaul of components and labor associated with performing airworthiness directives and mandatory service bulletins. New aircraft maintenance costs show the benefit of warranty coverage. An aging factor is applied based on the age of the aircraft. Labor cost estimates reflect a 10-year time period to balance warranty with mature aircraft costs.
Not Included – Labor required for major airframe and avionics inspections, major engine maintenance covered by the JSSI Complete guaranteed maintenance plan, off-aircraft overhaul and repair of components, maintenance labor required for optional equipment aircraft completion items (interior), aircraft cleaning and washing, any administrative labor, stocking of aircraft supplies or travel to repair aircraft.
MAINTENANCE – PARTS
Included – All airframe, avionics and minor engine consumable parts required for routine scheduled (daily and minor inspections), unscheduled and on-condition maintenance. Also includes parts associated with airworthiness directives and mandatory service bulletins. New aircraft maintenance costs show the benefit of warranty coverage. An aging factor is applied based on the age of the aircraft. Parts cost estimates reflect a 10-year time period to balance warranty with mature aircraft costs.
Not Included – Parts used in the overhaul of components, life-limited parts and engines. Also does not include parts required for major inspections, inventory costs, optional equipment, and aircraft completion items (interior).
ENGINE RESTORATION COST
Fixed Wing - Engine allowances for each turbine fixed wing aircraft are based on a 10-year average of the Jet Support Services, Incorporated Complete program. JSSI Complete covers scheduled and unscheduled maintenance, all required inspections and overhauls, airworthiness directives, service bulletins, and loaner engines. If no JSSI program is available, a manufacturer's plan or estimated set-aside to cover equivalent costs is used. All piston fixed wing aircraft use a set aside estimate to cover the cost of an overhaul of the engine at the recommended Time Between Overhaul (TBO).
Helicopter - The engine costs are estimated using an accrual system. Our costs include an estimate of the funds an operator should set aside in order to pay for engine restoration maintenance over the full operational life of the helicopter. Our estimates are derived from our Life Cycle Cost program. We calculate the engine costs at two cycles per hour through two overhauls. We do this to include the costs of cycle sensitive life limited part items that occur during the second overhaul.
MAJOR PERIODIC MAINTENANCE
Major Inspections – The maintenance labor and parts costs required for major aircraft inspections (heavy maintenance) are not included unless otherwise noted. An example of this would be a “D” check. Dynamic Component Overhaul and Life Limited Parts The maintenance labor and parts costs required for overhaul of major components and life-limited parts are not included. An example of this would be a landing gear overhaul.
Dynamic Component Overhaul and Life Limited Parts
Fixed Wing - The maintenance labor and parts costs required for overhaul of major components and life-limited parts are not included. An example of this would be a landing gear overhaul.
Helicopter - The component overhaul costs and Life Limited Parts replacement are estimated using an accrual system. Our costs include an estimate of the funds an operator should set aside in order to pay for the labor and parts required for component overhauls over the full operational life of the helicopter. For example, a component overhaul due at 20,000 hours and a cost of $20,000 would be included at $1 per hour.
THRUST REVERSER OVERHAUL (Jets Only) – The parts and labor costs required to overhaul the thrust reversers with a set overhaul interval. Routine costs for on-condition thrust reversers are included in the maintenance-parts and labor. For aircraft with optional thrust reversers, an allowance will not be shown unless they are installed on half or more of the current fleet.
PROPELLER OVERHAUL (Turboprop and Piston Aircraft)
The maintenance labor and parts costs required to overhaul the propellers, including the cost of any life limited parts.
APU MAINTENANCE OVERHAUL
Includes all costs associated with the maintenance and overhaul of the Auxiliary Power Unit (APU) except routine, minor servicing and maintenance. For Honeywell units, if covered by JSSI Complete, it is their annual fee divided by the aircraft’s annual flight hours; otherwise it is the Honeywell MSP hourly rate. For other units manufactured by other than Honeywell, we use JSSI’s hourly rates. If the unit is not covered by JSSI, if not we estimate the hourly cost.
LANDING AND PARKING FEES
Represents typical U.S. charges associated with landing and parking the aircraft away from home base. We use a formula based on the maximum gross weight of the aircraft
CREW EXPENSES
The costs incurred by the crew when away from home base for accommodations, transportation, and meals incurred by the crew when away from home base. The costs are typical of a major metropolitan area.
SMALL SUPPLIES AND CATERING
The costs incurred for minor supplies for the cabin and cockpit (flashlight batteries, napkins, toilet paper) and all in-flight catering for the crew and passengers. We use a formula based on the number of crew plus passengers and size of the aircraft. Larger aircraft will incur higher costs.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 07 Oct 2014, 22:46 
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Joined: 12/16/07
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Haven't posted on here for awhile. Work got busy and my trust fund wasn't large enough to pass it up :D
Scheduled attending type school the end of this month. The II I was flying was down for a bit; so, I've been using the C90. I'll try to fly the II a bit before school if I can work it in. If not, I think I get three to five hours in the plane when I get my type ride which will include a separate check ride by a DPE; and a separate ATP ride for that test.
Looking forward to it and hoping the stupid Rag Weed goes away around here so I can quit walking around with my lower lip extended to keep my shirt dry!

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2014, 00:36 
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Username Protected wrote:
... when I get my type ride which will include a separate check ride by a DPE; and a separate ATP ride for that test.


Type rating ride and ATP ride should be the same. Type rating ride is to ATP standards and is an ATP ride if you have the written done.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2014, 08:42 
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Thanks, I'll clarify. May be mixing that up with the single pilot ride which would be separate.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2014, 09:33 
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Username Protected wrote:
Thanks, I'll clarify. May be mixing that up with the single pilot ride which would be separate.


Good Morning Dave,

That makes more sense. If you're doing your SPW at the same time as your initial type and ATP you will indeed get to do two full rides back to back. The first will be the initial type rating ride and your examiner will act as your SIC (you must use him/her as copilot, you can't just fly as if you're alone, they want to see you acting as captain and utilizing CRM). That first ride will also get you your ATP multi since you have your hours and written done (make sure that box is checked when you fill out your 8710). After all of that is done you will go back up and do your SPW ride which is essentially the same ride you just did, but will be more like check rides you have done in the past with the examiner acting strictly as an observer. Depending on whose waiver you use there may be a few additional hoops to jump through. For example the waiver I fly under requires demonstration of circling approaches to both the right and the left as well as cross panel flying and a few other minor tasks that aren't included on the initial type ride.

Good luck, and have fun!!!

John IV


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 08 Oct 2014, 10:37 
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Yep, the owner was out the other day. Lady I talked to seemed to think the ATP ride would be separate. I'll chat with the school owner when he's back. I think the confusion was what I said above. A lot of work, either way :)

Thanks for chiming in Allen.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2014, 19:39 
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Username Protected wrote:
Depending on whose waiver you use there may be a few additional hoops to jump through. For example the waiver I fly under requires demonstration of circling approaches to both the right and the left as well as cross panel flying and a few other minor tasks that aren't included on the initial type ride.


That is tougher then the 525 single pilot check ride. Only one circling approach which can be to the left is required, and no cross panel flying. My 525S checkride was identical to my 525 type & ATP ride.

Dave should find out what maneuvers beyond the PTS standards he will be required to demonstrate. If Dave needs to do right circles or cross panel flying and has not done them then I suggest he practice that stuff in his KA before he begins his training. That will likely save time and stress where Dave can focus on learning the plane and not the maneuvers.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 09 Oct 2014, 22:09 
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Focusing on the initial ride now; SP later. Don't know if this school can do the SP ride. The local DPE that did that isn't around now. Owner of the school was trying to get approved, but isn't last I heard. After the ride, I can log PIC and get some experience; then, look into the SP ride and what authority it will be under. I'll probably rent for a bit and may fly more than one plane. The 551 I am renting now is SP. If I get a straight II, of course, I'll need the SP checkout. There's also a 501 here I may be able to dry lease. Too many variables right not to figure 'em all out :) So, I'll just get the rating and go from there.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 09 Nov 2014, 20:33 
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Had to reschedule type training until December 3. Got the POH and am reviewing along with some other materials a friend had. Looking to lease a plane if possible until I can purchase. Or, may fly someone else's for a bit until some business deals cash flow.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2014, 15:31 
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Completed ground school yesterday in the Citation V. They didn't have a II I could fly, but the V was only a bit more :D . Taking it on a trip next week to get some time in it with an instructor. Will do the actual flight training week after next to get the ATP and typed in the plane. This type applies for 500, 501; 550, 551 and SII Bravo; 560 which is what I'll fly and Ultra. So, lots of different planes one can fly with this type rating.

Best,

Dave

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Dave Siciliano, ATP


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2014, 16:10 
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Congrats Dave :clap:


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2014, 16:51 
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Congratulations Dave!
You must be so excited!
I can't even imagine having a jet rating
The few times I have flown right seat in one and they let me operate the radios and stuff, it all happens so fast compared to what I am used to....

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2014, 18:03 
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[quote="Dave Siciliano"]Completed ground school yesterday in the Citation V. They didn't have a II I could fly, but the V was only a bit more :D . Taking it on a trip next week to get some time in it with an instructor. Will do the actual flight training week after next to get the ATP and typed in the plane. This type applies for 500, 501; 550, 551 and SII Bravo; 560 which is what I'll fly and Ultra. So, lots of different planes one can fly with this type rating.

Best,

Dave[/quote

Great going, Dave. If you haven't already flown it, the Ultra is a kick in the pants after the others in the 500/550 series.
MM


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2014, 18:52 
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Great going, Dave. If you haven't already flown it, the Ultra is a kick in the pants after the others in the 500/550 series.
MM


How far can you go in an Ultra with lets say 5 on board ?


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Citation II
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2014, 20:14 
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One can plan for about 1,600 in the V from discussions and what the book says. I'll defer to someone else on Ultra (I don't have that book). That means going to Europe, one may be able to skip Greenland from Canada (normal caveats). In the II, Greenland would be a planned stop. There was a guy in class with me flying an Ultra and had just come back form a trip to France. He was able to skip Greenland on the way over.

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