I gotcha, I got the same runaround for Duke insurance also before I found someone who would write it reasonably.

I suspect it’s not the underwriter, but rather the company shopping the quote that is the problem. That’s why I was asking in this thread just to see who people are going through and what the average cost is.

Are you guys financing these aircraft? If not, just go liability only until market changes again. Anyone with a heartbeat can get that.

I'm not financing, and that thought (Liability only) had crossed my mind, considering I'm looking at the lower end of the spectrum for a Solitaire if I were to even go this direction, something with solid, albeit higher time engines with a fresh HSI and average P&I and avionics.

A partner in a local area plane would obviously be better, both for the Duke or an MU-2, but sadly very few people seem to want to partner in planes at this level, even in as busy an area as Nashville.

The only reason I'd move up from the Duke is the fact that fuel cost with contract fuel seems to make the direct operating cost better given that our mission (250-500 NM legs) is burning about 50 gph average in Laz.

With our low utilization rate (40-50 hours a year), if we bought a plane with fresh HSI's we might never have to do one again, or it would be 20+ years down the road, and dispatch reliability is much better. Probably can't say that for engine work on a Duke.

Hangar cost is the same, annual with my shop is about the same, so that takes us to the question of insurance to be able to put the whole picture together.

Never heard of that broker. (Oh now I see, they bought Norris Hibbler)
There are a couple here on BT you can try also

AIG and Global are never markets for an Mu2. Not sure why somebody would even send them a request.

Why the Decline from USSIC? That would need to be known, they write my Mu2 partnership. They have been a big supporter of the plane for a long time.

There are a few others that we write them with also depending on experience and the Carrier mood of the day.

Tj

You might be locked into those responses for some time now that a broker has gone "to the markets" on your behalf (I learned the hard way you get one shot at getting the broker right in the first place with Turbines). I use Chris Turnbull @ CS+A, who I think is in your neck of the woods. I've been satisfied.

Think in terms of 1.5-2% of hull value and $1500/$1mill liability

We use them too on the TBM, they have been great.

Thanks for the input all,

I talked to CS&A when I was trying to get insurance on the Duke (they're down in Franklin about an hour south of me, I'm on the north side of downtown).

They quoted yearly training from Bob, etc and were about $4,000 a year on a $125k hull value, so about 2% plus $1,500, which seemed a little high to me coming from a Baron insured the same but for less than half that.

I ended up getting insurance on Laz at $3,700 a year and an IPC. I definitely want to do initial training with Bob Hoffman but it's nice not to have to spend that kind of money every year for formal recurrent (Avemco).

That would make a $200k plane $5,500 a year. Not terrible but more than I was hoping obviously. An extra $1,500 a year by 50 hours a year is about $30 an hour, which basically offsets the gas savings over the Duke. Not worth quibbling over clearly at this point in the game for hourly operating costs, but that makes it more of a dispatch reliability and speed question between the two.

From what I can tell, the MU-2 Solitaire (-6 engines) does about 80 GPH on short 1 hour hops, 70 GPH longer hops (2-3 hours) at about 260-270 KTAS.

My mission may just really scream Duke more than MU-2, as much as a turboprop sounds good once all this pans out (which is why I've been asking questions).

I do appreciate the answers and help!

Solitaire = -10
All the others are -5, -6 or -10 conversions.

It is easy to forget that the Mu2 burns something like 50gph just sitting there at idle!
This adds up...

I think when I did the math over our 10 years of owning the Mu2 the average fuel consumption vs Hobbs came down to about 90gph.

Tj

Thanks, still learning. Local guy has a couple for sale, one is an -F, one is a -J, both are -6 powered.

Laz is a gas hog, but we knew it would be. 1:25 block flight to Asheville for Christmas and 1:35 back (3:00 total) burned 155 gallons. That's roughly 50 GPH block to block.

Flight to BTR was 2:55 and burned 135 gallons. That's 45 GPH roughly.

So on the high side, 50 GPH * 5.50 an hour is $275 an hour.

Even if the MU-2 is burning 90 GPH block to block, * $3.50 avg Jet A on contract, that's $315 an hour. And going 60-70 Kts (about 30%) faster.

BTR we just flew is 423 NM. That's 2 hours block to block in the MU-2? * $315 an hour in gas... $630 roughly and an hour faster = saved hourly cost towards Mx, etc. Versus the $750 it cost me to top off when we landed in BTR in the Duke and an hour longer of use on the plane.

Times 10 flights (round trips) per year.

In the end it may not be enough to justify the jump, but it's worth considering. I currently have about $110k in Laz, about to put another $10k in for a G4 engine monitor and fixing the pressurization, 540 update to the latest and greatest, etc. Probably another $10k in other misc squawks over the next few months. By the time I'm done, sell close to $140k and have to dump another $60k for the Mits?

Buys a lot of gas for Laz. Might be better to stay put but it would be nice.

90gal block sounds a little heavy, but possible. Up high the TPE's burn about 65gal/hr. I've found that they all kind of burn the same amount, the only thing that changes is the speed. So on the Commanders a -10 will do 300kts, -5 will do 270-275kts and a -1 will do 245-250kts, same burn roughly.

You are going to need a fair amount of annual training with the MU2, certainly much more than an IPC.

Here are some recent stats going from Florida to Arizona to Colorado back to Florida in my -1 MU-2 over Christmas. About 3,500nm. About 1000 gallons, about 15.33 hours of flying. That's about 65 GPH on average. My average fuel cost was about $230/hour. I was truing between 265-280 depending on weight, altitude and temperature. Most importantly, (other than a bad nose wheel tire) nothing related to the airplane broke or required any maintenance.

I don't know of any other turboprop or big piston twin that can economically compete with a Mitsubishi! I've made this trip in a Baron, P Baron, Eclipse, Citation and a Lancair (well the Lancair doesn't count that's insanely efficient) but the MU-2 was more efficient/cheaper and faster than anything other than the Lancair.

Those fuel burn numbers sound really high... I have the actual data from 189 hours in a -10 C-441 that I managed and we averaged 57 GPH based on block time, and 64 GPH based on hobbs (WOW)...

We are RVSM approved, but that would only make a few GPH difference...

Like many people, what I found is that with contract fuel and a little planning, the fuel cost were very close to the C-421C that we replaced it with. I flew a three leg trip with it, and the same trip with my Aerostar (SS700) and fuel cost were $60 more for the 441. I did make an extra stop for cheap fuel with it, which is probably where that $60 was burned...

I would have thought the Eclipse would have been close.

That includes 5 hours at 17,500 burning 75gph and a local flight for half an hour burning a ton!!