Agreed. Did that alone in the Baron last month. 2 hours a month in ANY airplane does nto make you proficient in a high performance airplane.

Todd,

First let me say that I enjoy reading your posts, there is usually a lot of meat to digest and I enjoy the meals. Having said that I also find myself sometimes wondering how you get from point A to point B.

Your calculus of renting a King Air for 30 hours works out to about three trips per year. In case you haven't chartered one recently, and you dont have some kind of a sweetheart deal with uncle Vinney, you're likey paying for the dead head back to your point of origin or their home base.

So, a 2.75 hour trip up and back with dead head charges works out to about 30 hours when you do that three times. You say you're not a rich man but yet you're signing up for a $50,000 tab for three round trip charters to Florida and back, interesting.

As for preferring a 300-500M turbine over a Baron, go for it if you want. I wouldn't be interested in putting my family in a clapped out aircraft just so I can say that I fly a turbine. Please understand that I mean no disrespect, but this notion that you're better off operating a cheap ragged out turbine on the cheap verses an affordable piston twin/single seems quizzical.

I understand that what is right for my family may not be a good fit for your family. It's nice to have choices but if you're lusting for a King Air over a Baron l suggest that you have more room in your budget than just 500M.

Best wishes,[/quote]
I will take a clapped out KA over a piston twin any day of the week when it comes to safety and performance. Yes, the clapped out plane may have higher costs, but a KA with an engine out is an inconvenience, not an emergency.

Also, with enough planning you can easily get the trips you want at $1700 per hour.

And NO I would not pay $50k per year to fly a few trips per year, but that is what you will pay in real expenses to own a pristine piston twin and fly it 30 hours per year. Any way you look at it twins costs a lot of money to own and maintain if you want a nice plane with modern avionics, nice paint, nice interior, etc.

My point on this whole thread is that a Baron is not a magic machine that will have your wife that currently is afraid to fly dancing in the streets when she gets in the Baron. She is still getting into a piston plane that is noisy, not very fast, not very roomy, and is going to be in the weather much of the time. It is also being flown by a pilot that most likely is not 100% on his game when it comes to SE operations.

It is all good, though. Buy what you want and fly what you want. Just don't be disappointed when your wife says "I still am afraid" because that is a real possibility.

Are you including cost of capital? Fixed + variable for me is under 30k for 100 hrs a year, not counting upgrades or cost of capital. Should be less this year since fuel and insurance are both lower. I think I'd be looking at least triple that to operate an high time KA with ancient equipment. Also I don't have a business use for my plane, just fun family trips (magic machine for us, wife and kids love the plane) and training, hamburger runs, pilots and paws missions, etc. Without a business use it's hard to make the cost per mile logic make sense.

Yes, I am considering the cost of capital. If you leave out that facet you do not have an accurate amount. Somebody like you can triple their expenses because you are very good at taking money and making it in the markets. Call it $1000 per hour

I agree. If you're flying it much, it adds up in a hurry. Having said that, I love mine.

Not somebody who flies a twin nearly every day. It's a judgment about pilots who don't fly for a living, not an assessment of you.

I think that is probably a very accurate statement. If you are only flying a few hours a month and you aren't continually practicing engine out procedures or V1 cuts, you are not going to be on your game like a pro would be. If you think otherwise you are really fooling yourself.

I can't tell you the number of pilots that I have flown with in twins that don't do a good pre-takeoff briefing on what speeds they do things at, what they will do in an emergency, where the outs are, etc.

We get somewhat complacent that both motors will keep spinning. In a turboprop or jet, you generally --- generally --- have more margin. But, as we have seen recently, that isn't a magic bullet either. Maintain directional control.

Not somebody who flies a twin nearly every day. It's a judgment about pilots who don't fly for a living, not an assessment of you.

:

A Baron would probably work for you. I hope you find the right one!

My Baron is a 77 and a B55, but it's about as new as any plane can be since I totally restored it, so my operating costs are probably in the ball park with an 03 or newer, although my plane is 500-600 pounds lighter than the avg 03 or newer 58 so you should increase your fuel costs a bit. here are mine

Hangar: 4800
Insurance: 3100 (225k hull, 1m smooth)
Annual + Squawks: 4800
Oil+Analysis: 800
Gas: 13000
Misc Maint: 1200 (Alternator)
Taxes: 900
Gps Subscriptions + Apps: 1000

$29,600

I also put about 6k of upgrades with the JPI 790 and VG install including installation. Also I don't count cost of capital. A 6% cost of capital would put me at 50k or so like Todd says, however I choose to blissfully ignore that, this is a liability not an asset, and not owning a plane is a non-starter for me so I think of it as a sunk cost. If I end up buying my hangar that cuts my annual hangar expense in half, for the next 20 years. I'll probably ignore that as a sunk cost too, since if I must have a plane, I must have a hangar too. I flew 110 hours in the Baron and 40 in the Citabria.

My exact costs too

Adam,

Your Baron looks beautiful, your fuel cost is very reasonable for 110 hrs. too.
That is great you get to fly 150hrs. per year.
You are a lucky man!

Fuel estimate could be a little low, I ran my logbook hours last 365 days from today (pilotica.com) but that's hobbs. for my plane I budget 25 gph at 5.50 a gallon and almost always come under that and gas prices are declining I'm paying $4.97 now, and I cruise LOP at 22-23 gph but takeoff well ROP. Typical flight is 300NM at 9k ft ~185 kts LOP.