When I sat in a Meridian and an M600, the entry wasn’t that easy but doable. Both times, I had somewhat oversized running shoes on. Took mental note for next time to wear P-46 slippers. Dunno if this will help?

Best,

Tom

I scratch my head when people complain about pa46 egress and ingress. It’s easier than any jet with a console in the middle, which is basically all of them.

Piaggio cockpit much bigger than pa46 but pa46 order of magnitude easier to get in and out of.

Tin can comments on pa46 are head scratching. I owned one and flew it all around the country. Not tin can at all. Cockpit extremely comfortable and noticeably wider than the TBM. I am 6’, 170lb and routinely did 6 hour flights.

I think the old meredians are great bargains. TBM only gets the nod if you need the range IMO. One should note though that the old tbm’s (pre c2) don’t have the range and payload of the newer ones.

Not mine!

I removed the pedestal entirely with the avionics upgrade. FMS gone, autopilot functions moved to center panel.

Made an ENORMOUS changer to cockpit access.

More and more are doing this.

I really worried about cockpit comfort with a control column through the floor and the pedestal sticking out. The pedestal is gone and the control column is a non issue.

Mike C.

Fair enough. Personal experiences vary, mine was the opposite.

I tried to get into the M600 on display at Oshkosh, and couldn't make it. Once I'm walking hunched over, lifting a leg over the spar while simultaneously maneuvering into the pilot seat was too uncomfortable for me. The sales guy there tried to show me how, but he wasn't successful.

By contrast, in the Aerostar I just step up into the pilot seat and close the door, easy peasy. Same with my 210.

Ingress and egress ergonomics are important. It's reasonable to assume that my flexibility will decline with age, whereas my weight and grumpiness will increase. So if I don't fit today, I won't fit tomorrow.

My $0.02

Mark

Wasn't easy but I was able to get in. Once seated however it was also no bueno. Yes the seat was all the way back. To Chuck's point, I might have been able to make it work with a custom seat cushion if that could possibly give 2 more inches of headroom, and maybe switch to in-ear headsets, and maybe a custom cover on the base of the panel... might do the trick.

Yup. Got to have the right technique. Call it the “dance” if you like, but I call it the “slide” when getting in the TBM.

My first time was my buddy’s TBM850 and I was very turned off, thinking my wife, with mobility issues would never want this level of difficulty. (Turns out as a really short person it was easy for her from the start).

Once you figure out you can’t just walk up the middle and sit like a church pew and learn to face to the side away from your seat then slide your feet past the pedestal it becomes easy and natural and a non-issue. Do not try to make steps, always slide. Not sure yet how the spar changes this technique but something similar seems likely.

Are the later models PA-46 built with adjustable rudder pedals? I have a 6’-2” torso and 5’-8” legs, so the ability to move the pedals aft in the TBM was very helpful in matching cockpit to pilot.

Haha. True, but many people buying a multimillion dollar aircraft also expect to be able to enter and exit comfortably.

The PA46 is very comfortable once in the seat. I think there are a few reasons for the comments. One, people want an excuse not to buy a multimillion dollar aircraft.

The others are that any cabin class plane has a technique to get in place. Once you learn the technique that works for you, you don't even notice anymore. First time I got in a PC12 or a PC24, I thought you have to be kidding me. Harder than getting in my PA46 the first time, because I didn't have a technique yet. Same for an M2, etc.

There were many modifications to the PA46 and the newer ones have more room than the older ones. Thinner higher density foam seats, backs that go over and not limited by the wing spar, and the cockpit redesigned to give more hip and headroom.

The other reason is that the seats are not set up right for the newbie. The seats on the PA46 go back and forth, up and down, and recline. I am 6'2 and don't have to have the seat all the way back. One PA46 driver that I know is 6'7 and built like a GB lineman. One of the better known PA46 instructors is 6'5 and doesn't complain. So when I hear someone 6 foot tall saying they don't fit.... Doesn't pass the sniff test. They just need someone to show them how to work it.

Did this flight yesterday, 1500 nm and 5:28 in the M600. Was super comfortable. Would take it any day over 2 legs first class in the aluminum greyhound shoulder to shoulder wearing the mask of shame.

My 421 was way easier than PA46. But the only time I cared about getting in the PA46 cockpit was when someone was in the copilot seat.

My 501sp is really tight and is not as comfortable as PA46 once in. At least in the PA46 I could spread my legs to the co pilot side. Not in the 501sp with the console.

Crazy that the larger 501sp has a smaller cockpit than the 421 and the PA46.

I have yet to have a plane with a cockpit that I fit in. The 421 was pretty nice.


Mike

Agree with you that Meridians are well built. But I feel cramped in the Meridian, opposite in the TBM.

Agree with you that Meridians are well built. But I feel cramped in the Meridian, opposite in the TBM.

I’m 6’2” 240 and comfortable even on 3+ hour legs. Did you experiment with the seat controls?

Israel

I took out my bulkhead behind the pilot seat and my seat is all the way back. I am 6’5” 260lbs. So there is no cockpit made for me. I could not physically fly a 501 without the bulkhead and cabinet removed. I also had my pilot seat modified and took out foam. I am
Still cramped in there.

The fact that I fit in the PA46 shows how they can fit larger guys. But I had the seat modified. You can make most cockpits work for taller guys but they need mods.

Mike

I flew right seat in a 501 this summer and it was tight but not uncomfortable once I got in. Didn't get a chance to try the left seat. I'm 6'2" and 190 lbs on a good day.

My brother is 6'4" and 220 lbs, so based on what Mike is saying it could be a challenge for him. He was on the summer 501 flight, but in the back and did not try out the cockpit. This may be an issue as a long-term plan I'm floating is both my brother and I get 500 ratings and co-buy a 501. By the way, he just started taking flying lessons last month and his instructor is ready to solo him after 4.5 hours of flight instruction; at this rate he'll have a 500 type rating before me!

My theory is that since the 501 is basically a 500 and the 500 was originally designed for a professional non-owner crew in mind (shorter ex-military pilots?), Cessna did not put much thought into cockpit space.

I've heard 525's are similarly tight on the left seat. But those were originally designed more for owner-operators, so seems to me they should have factored in more space, even though the 525 nose seems to be based on the 500 nose.

But sorry Sounds like the PA46 would be a good "fit" for my brother (though I suspect he really wants a Vision Jet). However, I need something that can carry 7-8 people and a PC-12 is too much CAPEX for me.

I'm similarly sized and having no comfort issues in the Citation cockpit. Mine has no pedestal.


I can't afford a PC-12.

I fly a Citation V.

Mike C.