07 Dec 2025, 16:26 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Best aircraft for $750,000? Posted: 25 Nov 2017, 14:09 |
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Joined: 08/16/15 Posts: 3718 Post Likes: +5500 Location: Ogden UT
Aircraft: Piper M600
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Username Protected wrote: If someone shows me they can fly an airplane during an emergency while reading the POH I’ll rest my case. Sure, one pilot, one airplane, you should have everything memorized... but that’s not my world. Love reading your posts, and hearing your perspective. You do know, though, reading the POH while hand-flying in IMC is a normal skill that most of us have to demonstrate during recurrent training? Often in a Sim that is actually harder to fly and less stable than the actual plane 
_________________ Chuck Ivester Piper M600 Ogden UT
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Post subject: Re: Best aircraft for $750,000? Posted: 25 Nov 2017, 14:26 |
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Joined: 08/08/12 Posts: 1445 Post Likes: +940
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Username Protected wrote: If someone shows me they can fly an airplane during an emergency while reading the POH I’ll rest my case. Sure, one pilot, one airplane, you should have everything memorized... but that’s not my world. Love reading your posts, and hearing your perspective. You do know, though, reading the POH while hand-flying in IMC is a normal skill that most of us have to demonstrate during recurrent training? Often in a Sim that is actually harder to fly and less stable than the actual plane 
Most of us? Hardly. The only time I would have to demonstrate that in the sim would be if my copilot died at the start of the emergency. But, I would ask the instructor to take us off motion and lower the bridge expeditiously.
Actually, I have had to do that in single pilot airplanes I have flown. Depending on the situation, it would possibly be, do the memory items. The do the checklist if you can take your attention away from flying the airplane. If not, well, fly the airplane.
Last edited on 25 Nov 2017, 14:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: Best aircraft for $750,000? Posted: 25 Nov 2017, 14:26 |
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Joined: 05/23/13 Posts: 8651 Post Likes: +11216 Company: Jet Acquisitions Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: If someone shows me they can fly an airplane during an emergency while reading the POH I’ll rest my case. Sure, one pilot, one airplane, you should have everything memorized... but that’s not my world. Love reading your posts, and hearing your perspective. You do know, though, reading the POH while hand-flying in IMC is a normal skill that most of us have to demonstrate during recurrent training? Often in a Sim that is actually harder to fly and less stable than the actual plane 
Thanks and that is a good point. I hope no one has a real emergency, but my point is simply that if you do, having someone else to communicate with ATC, open the manual, keep and eye out for terrain, traffic, trees, whatever... is huge.
I have read the NTSB report of every fatal accident prior to about 2012 (got busy and haven’t kept up) my takeaways are that most people still kill them selves close to the airport by getting slow and by CFIT. Then if you look at all accidents, you’ll see that a chain of events usually takes place, pilot error is often ruled the cause, but it’s typically an error committed at the end of a chain of unfortunate occurrences. Would a copilot always break the chain? No, we have plenty of accidents to show two heads both failed... but what about the accidents prevented by the copilot? Well, we don’t record those.
As a passenger I have been in two separate incidents where the airplane would have crashed had it not been for the copilot and that’s just me... I can only extrapolate those odds and say that this happens a lot more than you think.
Even something as simple as keeping my buddy from busting that TFR, we would have been forced to land in Waco, he would have likely faced action by the FAA (another friend lost his PP for 6 months for doing it) it was as simple as me being more familiar with the area and not focused on flying the airplane.
We also have a responsibility as aviation enthusiast to mentor and bring the next generation into GA. I challenge all of you fortunate enough to fly a single pilot aircraft to stick a young pilot in that right seat. You’ll be doing the right thing and who knows... it might be your a- - he saves!
_________________ Recent acquisitions - 2021 TBM 910 - 2013 Citation Mustang - 2022 Citation M2Gen2
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Post subject: Re: Best aircraft for $750,000? Posted: 25 Nov 2017, 15:25 |
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Joined: 01/29/09 Posts: 4792 Post Likes: +2504 Company: retired corporate mostly Location: Chico,California KCIC/CL56
Aircraft: 1956 Champion 7EC
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Quote: You do know, though, reading the POH while hand-flying in IMC is a normal skill that most of us have to demonstrate during recurrent training? Often in a Sim that is actually harder to fly and less stable than the actual plane  And you do know that an actual emergency is not the video game that a simulator simulates... (you may not get to go to the break room). Accomplish the "boxed" items from memory, follow up with the checklist/QRH. Take ten deep breaths, and when you can talk...tell someone you have an emergency. Oh yes, and the heart rate in the Sim, is only a simulated heart rate... Sorry, minor rant 
_________________ Jeff
soloed in a land of Superhomers/1959 Cessna 150, retired with Proline 21/ CJ4.
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Post subject: Re: Best aircraft for $750,000? Posted: 25 Nov 2017, 15:43 |
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Joined: 01/16/11 Posts: 11068 Post Likes: +7098 Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
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Being a pilot, I can tell you that with absolute certainty that automated cockpits will be coming..........without anyone sitting up front.
My position, which mirrors some posters, is that a simple, SP built airplane is easier to fly and hence safer (removing pilot from equation) than a complex twin pilot airplane..............
Chip, if you have had two incidents with the SIC saved your bacon, you had really, really unhealthy or absolutely crappy captains........
_________________ ---Rusty Shoe Keeper---
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Post subject: Re: Best aircraft for $750,000? Posted: 25 Nov 2017, 16:03 |
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Joined: 05/23/13 Posts: 8651 Post Likes: +11216 Company: Jet Acquisitions Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: Being a pilot, I can tell you that with absolute certainty that automated cockpits will be coming..........without anyone sitting up front.
My position, which mirrors some posters, is that a simple, SP built airplane is easier to fly and hence safer (removing pilot from equation) than a complex twin pilot airplane..............
Chip, if you have had two incidents with the SIC saved your bacon, you had really, really unhealthy or absolutely crappy captains........ Not true, both happened to be the same though about 15 years apart, one was getting slow on final in a Lear 24D, copilot and owner of the airplane shouted “watch your airspeed” as he slammed the condition levers forward. The second actually was a Beechjet, the guy flying it was very experienced, but a lot of recent King Air time. The copilot was a very high time Flight Options guy, slow on final, airplane ended up waving at the non-existent crowd, copilot took the airplane and put it on the runway and got it stopped. These things aren’t talked about much... but happen on a regular basis. Same airport, a guy with a Hawker 400XP came in hot, barely got it stopped, blew all four tires in the process. If simplicity took care of incidents... those three green lights would have eliminated gear up landings a long time ago.
_________________ Recent acquisitions - 2021 TBM 910 - 2013 Citation Mustang - 2022 Citation M2Gen2
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Post subject: Re: Best aircraft for $750,000? Posted: 25 Nov 2017, 16:04 |
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Joined: 12/04/09 Posts: 356 Post Likes: +149
Aircraft: Dakota
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Username Protected wrote: The most complex system with the highest failure rate is the pilot. Redundancy helps when one fails. Now why would you apply that kind of sane logic to this good old fashioned d!nk-measuring contest??? 
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Post subject: Re: Best aircraft for $750,000? Posted: 25 Nov 2017, 16:33 |
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Joined: 01/16/11 Posts: 11068 Post Likes: +7098 Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Aircraft: PC12NG, G3Tat
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Username Protected wrote: If simplicity took care of incidents... those three green lights would have eliminated gear up landings a long time ago. Very, very rare for a PC12 to have a gear up landing..........in the NG that thing will blare at you like nothing else to tell you that the gear is not down.............a smarter airplane would put them down for you.......... Automation is coming.............we humans are not necessarily smart enough to stop it from happening.
_________________ ---Rusty Shoe Keeper---
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Post subject: Re: Best aircraft for $750,000? Posted: 25 Nov 2017, 20:29 |
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Joined: 05/23/13 Posts: 8651 Post Likes: +11216 Company: Jet Acquisitions Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: If someone shows me they can fly an airplane during an emergency while reading the POH I’ll rest my case. Sure, one pilot, one airplane, you should have everything memorized... but that’s not my world. Love reading your posts, and hearing your perspective. You do know, though, reading the POH while hand-flying in IMC is a normal skill that most of us have to demonstrate during recurrent training? Often in a Sim that is actually harder to fly and less stable than the actual plane 
http://www.naplesnews.com/story/news/lo ... 880459001/
_________________ Recent acquisitions - 2021 TBM 910 - 2013 Citation Mustang - 2022 Citation M2Gen2
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Post subject: Re: Best aircraft for $750,000? Posted: 25 Nov 2017, 20:44 |
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Joined: 01/31/09 Posts: 5193 Post Likes: +3038 Location: Northern NJ
Aircraft: SR22;CJ2+;C510
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Username Protected wrote: Glazer said the NTSB found a design flaw with the pressurization control system. The agency also concluded that the training manual for the Socata TBM 900 was lacking in that it provided little information about dealing with a depressurization event, and the sections that did discuss such events encouraged pilots to problem-solve before putting on their oxygen masks.
Daher-Socata has since reversed the order, now instructing pilots to don their oxygen masks before doing anything else,I am a bit shocked that Socata did not have mask on at the first sign of any pressurization problem. It sure is in all the Cessna checklists.
_________________ Allen
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Post subject: Re: Best aircraft for $750,000? Posted: 25 Nov 2017, 21:13 |
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Joined: 01/25/15 Posts: 201 Post Likes: +192
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Username Protected wrote: The PC12 QRH tells you to slap that thing on immediately. I have the o2 on pre-start, 10k ft and at cruise checks......... PC12 QRH is pretty good, a lot better than anything Socata has published. The only thing with PC12 QRH that kinda sucks is the Low Fuel Pressure under general emergencies. You have a good 5 minutes of troubleshooting, and then "Aircraft - Land as soon as possible, if possible retain glide capability to the selected Airfield in case of a total engine failure". Would make much more sense to mention that before the troubleshooting. In our sim, we were given this failure just to show that sometimes it's a good idea to read through the whole QRH procedure and decide if the last thing should be done first. We started doing the QRH procedure over a suitable airfield, and after completing the checklist, our engine failed, and we were nowhere near within gliding distance.
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Post subject: Re: Best aircraft for $750,000? Posted: 25 Nov 2017, 21:46 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26338 Post Likes: +13086 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: I’ve pulled the manual out and turned to Emergency procedures more than once. If someone shows me they can fly an airplane during an emergency while reading the POH I’ll rest my case. Sure, one pilot, one airplane, you should have everything memorized... but that’s not my world. The pilots we use are typically typed in a half dozen different airplanes. They may fly a King Air on Tuesday and a CJ4 on Wednesday. So 1 pilot can fly a Phenom but 1 can't fly a Gulfstream. What's the difference? I fly my PC12 from Atlanta to California/Cabo/Aspen/Dallas/NYC/MIAMI all the time. No problem. Why do you believe it needs to be so complex? If I had a Gulfstream...... I'd be flying it. I'll never be a "sit in the back" kinda guy. To me, that's like sitting shotgun while you pay a guy to drive you around in your own Ferrari.
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