BeechTalk - BT - Pilatus PC-24 makes first public appearance at EBACE

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2016, 15:07

Username Protected wrote:

Loquacious folks tend to be that way. Another distinction for this board, erudite folks using works we have to look up! :clap:

and not to mention, grammatical errors galore........actually Grommet has a good grasp of the English literature........he may not have had to look up that word.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2016, 15:08

Alas, Roget's on speed dial. :shrug:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2016, 15:20

Username Protected wrote:

Oops! There I go typing faster than thinking again. Thanks.
Another case of multi-lapsing

Not a problem, we know that in your case the glass is not half empty, it's just time for a refill :cheers:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2016, 15:30

What did I miss?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2016, 15:37

Username Protected wrote:

What did I miss?

Dave has mentioned he has a drinking problem.......we're talking through it......

Mike's going "Shakespeare" now that he's in Europe and is looking down on us JetA guys for not having a Cub or a Maule.......we're talking through that.......

Jason and I are as right as rain as per usual.......

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2016, 16:12

Username Protected wrote:

My quote for a brand spanking new 250 was less than the purchase price of my 2008 PC12

I'm having trouble believing you bought a 7 year old used airplane, that lists for $4.7M new, for less than a brand new, fresh off the line, not a demo or loaner, King Air 250, that lists for $6M.

2008 PC12 are running around $3M right now, so a nearly 50% discount?

Doesn't pass my sanity check.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2016, 16:16

Username Protected wrote:

2008 PC12 are running around $3M right now, so a nearly 50% discount?

Doesn't pass my sanity check.

Mike C.

A 2008 PC12 sold for $3.5MM or so in 2008. They were never $4.7-$4.9 until this year. The manufacturer raises the price every year.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2016, 16:33

Username Protected wrote:

A 2008 PC12 sold for $3.5MM or so in 2008. They were never $4.7-$4.9 until this year. The manufacturer raises the price every year.

Thanks Jason, that so clearly explains why Beech gives a 50% discount on KA250s.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2016, 16:37

Username Protected wrote:

Why would I fly approaches in a twin prop with the engine out? Where can I buy a new MU2? You might as well suggest I buy a '57 Chevy.

So you could make an assertion on the degree of difficulty between engine out approach in SETP vs METP.

Reality is you have not done either.

Not suggesting you buy anything. New METP are available. They just cost more than a new PC-12

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2016, 16:41

Username Protected wrote:

What did I miss?

Dave has mentioned he has a drinking problem.......we're talking through it......

Mike's going "Shakespeare" now that he's in Europe and is looking down on us JetA guys for not having a Cub or a Maule.......we're talking through that.......

Jason and I are as right as rain as per usual.......

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2016, 17:04

Username Protected wrote:

My quote for a brand spanking new 250 was less than the purchase price of my 2008 PC12

I'm having trouble believing you bought a 7 year old used airplane, that lists for $4.7M new, for less than a brand new, fresh off the line, not a demo or loaner, King Air 250, that lists for $6M.

2008 PC12 are running around $3M right now, so a nearly 50% discount?

Doesn't pass my sanity check.

Mike C.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2016, 17:16

Username Protected wrote:

So you could make an assertion on the degree of difficulty between engine out approach in SETP vs METP.

Reality is you have not done either.

Not suggesting you buy anything. New METP are available. They just cost more than a new PC-12

Not speaking for Jason, but I would expect/hope that he has done engine out work at least in the Sim, if not the aircraft, since he and I only have one of those fossil burners out there. I have done plenty of in-aircraft engine-out work in the piston PA46, my own risk assessment is that the turbine P46 has such a low likelihood of engine failure that the tiny risk of an engine out in the turbine aircraft does not warrant the slight risk of engine out practice gone bad in the actual aircraft.

In fact one of the PC12 fatals was related to engine out practice, and I think there have been 3 or more P46T's bent doing engine out work, which exceeds those bent from real engine outs. So I do my engine out work in the Sim. The PC12 and the P46T have one thing in common, that is an incredible glide ratio, which makes engine out landings pretty easy. On a recent flight, I noticed that I could land airports from Washington DC to NY state. That is some range from FL280. Pretty easy actually. Come in little high, and there is a world of drag that you can drop to get it down. You can go from glide to rock depending on how much flap and gear and slip you want to put in. Just don't put too much in too soon.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2016, 17:20

I would like to commend everybody here at BT for those threads…

it has become a bit confusing which issue in the turbine section is mixed up with what type…

but all the posts are, either entertaining and/ or filled with a lot of wisdom…

for every OEM it would be mandatory to read….they may get some ideas about new products…and I mean that…

may just add one small thing to all those O2 mask questions…( and I am a firm believer that masks will save us…IF something even very remotely should happen…well maybe not above FL 450…that is why the good folks in the Habus and the Dragon Lady wore and are wearing space suits that are good for the moon..and why all the manufactueres of the bizjets that can go up to FL510 either offer automatic descent systems as standard or as an option…you may be a vegetable once you are down to 15K ft…but still alive, well, maybe...)

when I was a kid and just had my fresh glider pilot's license a very nice flight instructor, his main job was DC-9 driver with Austrian Airlines then, took me up on my first "mountain wave" flight with his Blanik glider…

we got up to 28.000 FT…above the Austrian Alps..on masks…the most work was to wipe the frost off the canopy…no windshield heat on that one…the canopy would ice up internally from the breathing….

I had one of the first Walkman's then…..

that was my favorite song…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxyOhFBoxSY

what a view…and good vibes….

happy landings to the BT crowd…

and may we never have to use those masks…..in earnest…

I had to, several times, but those were planned events during test flights…

P.S.: And I can strongly recommend…treat yourself to some altitude chamber training…an eye opener….worth it…...

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2016, 17:20

Username Protected wrote:

I'm having trouble believing you bought a 7 year old used airplane, that lists for $4.7M new, for less than a brand new, fresh off the line, not a demo or loaner, King Air 250, that lists for $6M.

2008 PC12 are running around $3M right now, so a nearly 50% discount?

Doesn't pass my sanity check.

Mike C.

Mike, I may have overstated less than my purchase price on PC12, but it was not even close to 6MM....that's Phenom300 pricing.....

as for your sanity check, we're not sure we can get you through one of those.......it would take a serious amount of training

Username Protected · **Posted:** 31 May 2016, 18:13

Username Protected wrote:

You would have trouble finding a used phenom 300 for that price?

No, he's about right.