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26 Jan 2026, 17:01 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2022, 16:53 
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Username Protected wrote:
Idk about post-covid, but F model mu2’s used to be similarly priced to 414/421

Fuel cost/nm also similar


Well, 58 gph at 260 KTAS is about double what I’m using in the 414 at 200 KTAS. Yes, I could bump up fuel flow to 35 GPH to go a few knots faster, maybe 205?

MU-2: 260 KTAS / 58 GPH = 4.5 NM per gal
C414: 200 KTAS / 30 GPH = 6.7 NM per gal (50% improvement)

MU-2: 1 / 4.5 = 0.22 gal per NM * $5 = $1.1 per NM
C414: 1 / 6.7 = 0.15 gal per NM * $6 = $0.90 per NM

***************
Cessna Citation Mustang:

330 KTAS / 75 GPH = 4.4 NM per gal
1 / 4.4 = 0.23 gal per NM * $5 = $1.14 per NM

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Last edited on 31 Mar 2022, 17:03, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2022, 16:59 
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Location: Roseburg, Oregon
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If you’re talking cruise numbers vs block numbers, the Mustang does 335kts on 75gph in cruise.

335/75=4.47 nm/gal
1/4.47=0.22 gal/nm x $5 = $1.12/nm

Ok. I see you edited it from 95gph to 75gph. 330 is a bit slower than norm, but close. I usually see 335-340 depending on temp.

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Last edited on 31 Mar 2022, 17:10, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2022, 17:02 
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A $1 differential between avgas and jetA doesn’t reflect reasonable use of fuel programs. The delta is often $2 or more.

The piston may be less but it’s nowhere near half


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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2022, 21:45 
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Company: RNP Aviation Services
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Username Protected wrote:


That MU-2 has been listed for sale for months, if not a year. If it hasn't sold in that period of time, there is something wrong with it...or it's not really for sale...


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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2022, 22:35 
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Company: Jcrane, Inc.
Location: KVES Greenville, OH
Aircraft: C441, RV7A
Username Protected wrote:
I was over the Grand Canyon last month also in the MU-2F at FL250. 60kts faster on 58gph total. No cylinders to worry about, no magnetos either. Engines just spin at 96%rpm and EGT at 500. Oil changes, every 900 hours. TBO 5400 hours with hot sections at 1800 hours. No magnetos to time, no exhaust system to inspect, no turbochargers to fail, no cylinders or cases to crack...much simpler and more reliable powerplants. I had this debate with myself on pressurized twins, the MU-2F won and for good reason. It is a much more capable aircraft than any pressurized piston twin, period. The cost per mile for a 421 and my plane were close when I ran the numbers looking at a purchase. The hassle factor is not close, you just fly the plane between 100hr inspections. My plane has spent zero time in the shop for engine or airframe issues since Sept 2020 and 210 hrs flying time. It has covered more ground in that time than a 421 would as well.

The short body Mitts always comes up.

It doesn't have:
- 8 seats (or 6 seats with large pressurized rear baggage)
- a potty
- huge nose baggage

Those are a deal breaker for me.

Now a Solitaire, maybe. But I'd probably lean 441 in that class.

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N441M N107XX


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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2022, 23:29 
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Username Protected wrote:
If you’re talking cruise numbers vs block numbers, the Mustang does 335kts on 75gph in cruise.

335/75=4.47 nm/gal
1/4.47=0.22 gal/nm x $5 = $1.12/nm

Ok. I see you edited it from 95gph to 75gph. 330 is a bit slower than norm, but close. I usually see 335-340 depending on temp.


Everybody always wants to use idealized numbers. I used 200 KTAS as realistic and consistent number for the 414, but I can indeed exceed 200 KTAS most of the time.

For the Cessna 414 with RAM VI - 335hp:
(data provided by RAM Aircraft)

Cruise @ 75% - ISA - 20,000 ft. - 218 KTAS
Cruise @ 65% - ISA - 20,000 ft. - 203 KTAS

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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2022, 23:40 
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Username Protected wrote:
It doesn't have:
- 8 seats (or 6 seats with large pressurized rear baggage)
- a potty
- huge nose baggage

Those are a deal breaker for me.

Now a Solitaire, maybe. But I'd probably lean 441 in that class.


In the 414, for ski season, I actually make it a 5 seater, plus potty seat. That makes it really easy to get in and out of, and it’s super easy to throw stuff in the back.

I leave 200 pounds of ballast (aluminum ingot) strapped down in the nose baggage, plus whatever small things I don’t mind in the cold unpressurized nose.

I’ll be flying into KEGE this weekend for my last ski trip of the season, and I just don’t like being heavy climbing out of high elevation airports surrounded by ginormous mountains in ANY piston airplane. With 2250 pounds of useful load, there’s a lot to play with.

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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2022, 23:44 
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Nobody asked, but since we’re discussing efficiency, the Meridian is as follows:

FL300 @ ISA

255/33=7.7nm/gal
1/7.7=.12gal/nm x $5 = $0.60/nm

:duck: :hide:


Last edited on 31 Mar 2022, 23:50, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2022, 23:45 
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Joined: 12/19/09
Posts: 351
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Company: Premier Bone and Joint
Location: Wyoming
Aircraft: BE90,HUSK,MU-2
Username Protected wrote:
I was over the Grand Canyon last month also in the MU-2F at FL250. 60kts faster on 58gph total. No cylinders to worry about, no magnetos either. Engines just spin at 96%rpm and EGT at 500. Oil changes, every 900 hours. TBO 5400 hours with hot sections at 1800 hours. No magnetos to time, no exhaust system to inspect, no turbochargers to fail, no cylinders or cases to crack...much simpler and more reliable powerplants. I had this debate with myself on pressurized twins, the MU-2F won and for good reason. It is a much more capable aircraft than any pressurized piston twin, period. The cost per mile for a 421 and my plane were close when I ran the numbers looking at a purchase. The hassle factor is not close, you just fly the plane between 100hr inspections. My plane has spent zero time in the shop for engine or airframe issues since Sept 2020 and 210 hrs flying time. It has covered more ground in that time than a 421 would as well.

The short body Mitts always comes up.

It doesn't have:
- 8 seats (or 6 seats with large pressurized rear baggage)
- a potty
- huge nose baggage

Those are a deal breaker for me.

Now a Solitaire, maybe. But I'd probably lean 441 in that class.



Not sure what you mean. The Solitaire IS a short body Mits. The short body’s can be outfitted with 8 seats. You can have a potty but I’ve never seen one that had it. There is a large heated/pressurized baggage compartment aft of the cabin with a separate door and another very large unpressurized/unheated compartment on the other side as well as space behind and above the rear bench. No nose baggage compartment though.

I bring a toilet with cat litter in it if someone expects to use such a device on flights over 4 hours.

I have flown 1570 miles and landed with 100 gallons (yes, with a tailwind, but still quite a ways).

I’m usually at 305 to 315 and have seen 330 in cruise on a cold day. And much like the gentleman in the F model, in 5 years of ownership averaging about 250 to 275 hour per year, I interrupted one trip for a crack in the windshield and I had a flat tire once, otherwise nothing. There is no comparison in the reliability of a pressurized piston twin and that of a similar turbine aircraft (at least not in my experience comparing Aerostars and Mitsubishis). I’ve flown a lot in a 421 also…great plane, but it lost an engine too…maybe it’s me? But I wasn’t piloting the plane, just riding along. :D
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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2022, 00:20 
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Username Protected wrote:


That MU-2 has been listed for sale for months, if not a year. If it hasn't sold in that period of time, there is something wrong with it...or it's not really for sale...


Engine 1
Time 5,250 SNEW
TBO 5,400

Engine 2
Time 5,250 SNEW
TBO 5,400
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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2022, 07:42 
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Username Protected wrote:
Not sure what you mean. The Solitaire IS a short body Mits. The short body’s can be outfitted with 8 seats. You can have a potty but I’ve never seen one that had it. There is a large heated/pressurized baggage compartment aft of the cabin with a separate door and another very large unpressurized/unheated compartment on the other side as well as space behind and above the rear bench. No nose baggage compartment though.

I bring a toilet with cat litter in it if someone expects to use such a device on flights over 4 hours.

I have flown 1570 miles and landed with 100 gallons (yes, with a tailwind, but still quite a ways).

I’m usually at 305 to 315 and have seen 330 in cruise on a cold day. And much like the gentleman in the F model, in 5 years of ownership averaging about 250 to 275 hour per year, I interrupted one trip for a crack in the windshield and I had a flat tire once, otherwise nothing. There is no comparison in the reliability of a pressurized piston twin and that of a similar turbine aircraft (at least not in my experience comparing Aerostars and Mitsubishis). I’ve flown a lot in a 421 also…great plane, but it lost an engine too…maybe it’s me? But I wasn’t piloting the plane, just riding along. :D

Argghh...I meant Marquise, can't keep them straight.

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N441M N107XX


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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2022, 08:14 
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Username Protected wrote:
That MU-2 has been listed for sale for months, if not a year. If it hasn't sold in that period of time, there is something wrong with it...or it's not really for sale...


The engines are high time. It also says "two spare engines included" without further specs.

The F models are somewhat odd birds - they have all the quirks of the line but are no faster than a Meridian. I think most of the people who have the activation energy to buy an MU2 want a fast one. It's like buying a normally aspirated Aerostar.

(There are many things to recommend the F model. I think they're an amazing value, but they don't really fit in the same box as the rest of the line)


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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2022, 15:08 
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If one were to buy a "cheap" MU-2, and the engines were at or over TBO, how available are high-time engines with a few hundred hours left on them?

Assuming the "cheap" MU-2 airframe was basically sound, that might not be a bad plan, if there was a reasonable supply of high time, airworthy engines available to swap if the need arose.


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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2022, 19:01 
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Larry, the way I looked at this was that a hot section inspection for a -1 TPE 331 costs in the range of an overhaul for a TSIO Continental. Both of my engines had time left until hot section, one much more than the other so I budgeted accordingly. The plane on controller isn't bad, and you could just do the hot sections on the engines and keep flying if you wanted. The other question would be, what are the times on the included engines? Swapping engines on an MU2 takes a morning, it really is easy. That plane does have a potty BTW, and seats 7. The only other issue is the 7500 hour inspection which is a biggie, around $60K I am told. Be nice if someone already did that, but might be why it hasn't sold. It would be a point of negotiation. They rarely find anything wrong on that inspection, but it is required.


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 Post subject: Re: Best plane for 6 people, 600 nm
PostPosted: 01 Apr 2022, 22:51 
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IMO that F model is a bargain. It has been on the market for ages. You could probably trade those extra engines for hot sections, which would give you 20 years of flying. Also, an F model is good for 270+kts, which isn't a slug.

Btw, Tony you must have a very slick 414. I've never seen a 414 do 200kts on only 30gph. What altitude are you seeing that?

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