I remember the first time I sat in a real cabin-class airplane. It was a Citation Mustang in 2015 (which I’m now typed in). Coming from 172s, I thought an SR22 was already a massive plane. I remember thinking: “Wow, this is what $1.8M buys you. I totally get it.”

Next year, same hangar in KLGB, I had a look at a new Vision Jet in a hangar (never flew in it, was just invited to step in). Nice interior, but no comparison to a Mustang for double the price. Why would someone buy this and still not fly above the weather?

Fast forward: the next jets I flew with friends were an M2 (not that much different) and my first turboprop, a Piper Cheyenne. I totally understood that appeal too. It looked a bit dated, but in the end it felt like a comfortable cabin-class airplane.

Then, a few years ago, an acquaintance invited me to fly a few patterns in his brand-new TBM 940. I’d only heard about TBMs and I know some smart people who are die-hard fans.

When I got into the plane, I still remember how shocked I was at how small and cramped it is and what $5M buys you. To me it felt like a faster DA62 (great plane BTW), for five times the price.

So I still don’t get the TBM hype. Yes, I know: huge range. But who sits for hours with a family in a plane without some kind of proper toilet? Yes, I know: grass fields and short fields. But the people I knew at least went for big tarmac runways. It felt like, “hey, it’s a Lambo Urus and you can take it into the mud.” Rarely anyone does. And maybe you’d rather buy a PC-12 then (see that Swiss guy at Locher Airfield on YouTube). Yes, lower fuel consumption, but we’re talking ~60 gph vs ~100 gph here. That’s under $100 per flight hour, or under ~$0.30 per nautical mile. If you can afford a million-dollar plane, that’s peanuts.

The only thing I *kind of* get is the type-rating argument (which isn’t even true in the EU, you need one here as well, and recurrent every 2 years). But honestly, I never found those checks a burden, more like an opportunity to learn. And AFAIK insurance in the US won’t let you get away without regular training in a $5M airplane anyway. Also: they seem to hold their value. But $5M to deal with weather, thunderstorms, icing, etc.?

So yes, I know people like them, but I still can’t wrap my head around it. What’s the point of a TBM? The only thing I can think of is the Wife Acceptance Factor of Autoland. The multi-millionaire version of the Cirrus chute :-)

The 940 guy upgraded to a Phenom 300 recently.

PS: I’ve been following, silently, over the last few years, this Waldorf-and-Stattler, I mean Chip-and-Mike (“People who buy new airplanes are idiots” / “Some of my clients love new airplanes and don't want to become a part-sourcer”) ranting here. But I think especially Mike C. has a point. My 2 cents: Every used M2 is better than a TBM IMHO, and costs less.

Warning. Major thread drift.
Quote:
I’ve been following, silently, over the last few years, this Waldorf-and-Stattler, I mean Chip-and-Mike (“People who buy new airplanes are idiots” / “Some of my clients love new airplanes and don't want to become a part-sourcer”) ranting here. But I think especially Mike C. has a point. My 2 cents: Every used M2 is better than a TBM IMHO, and costs less.

Actually I think they both had a point. Mike C was taking the economic rationalist position. Chip didn’t dispute the economics, rather his point was that some people are in a position to and choose to buy what they want regardless of whether or not it makes economic sense.

They were both right.

Used M2 on Controller, 2290 hrs $3.5m

My 2003 TBM700C2, 1600 hrs $1.6m

I would love a 525, but to say it costs less is just wrong. Capital cost and operating cost is lower for a used TBM vs a used M2.

I saw the Garmin connected app and got a little excited, finally you can remotely check batteries and tire pressure! Nope, still not TPMS...bummer.

Chip-

Used M2 on Controller, 2290 hrs $3.5m

My 2003 TBM700C2, 1600 hrs $1.6m

I would love a 525, but to say it costs less is just wrong. Capital cost and operating cost is lower for a used TBM vs a used M2.

What’s the engine time on your C2? We have a client who may be interested.

Let us be a bit more fair and compare same age airplanes.

2003 CJ1 on Controller, $1.7M

So effectively about the same price.

But nowhere near the same experience in speed, comfort, and safety.

Oldest M2 is 2014, $3.6M.

2014 TBM 900 is $3.0 M on Controller.

Not very far apart.


For similar age, capital cost similar.

Operating costs are more for the jet.

Are you willing to publish your actual operating costs per year for your TBM? I keep hearing how expensive TBMs are to maintain and I don't quite understand why that should be.

Mike C.

To be honest, the more realistic comparison would be here a CJ1 or a Mustang to a TBM 700.

When do you take delivery?

I can't wait for them to add more mood lighting, keyless entry, and faster starlink speed and charge 10M for the TBM 1000.

Isn’t this a tad oversimplified?

Typically people in the financial position to purchase an aircraft like this would take advantage of current tax law to write off the entire cost in the year of acquisition generating massive income tax savings.

And significant cash savings.

I’ve been in the room when the owner’s make the decision to buy a brand new biz jet on many occasions; as a general rule they like having a nice, new aircraft the cost of which is substantially offset by income tax savings.

I have 2 GPS antennas on the glareshield in my Rocket. They made a horrible reflection on the W/S. My solution was to take a Crown Royal Black bag and put 1/4" plastic tubing in it to give it shape and it covers both antennas perfectly. Any flat black fabric will do the trick. It would not transmit heat, and it could be Velcroed on to cover the entire assembly. I will get a pic of it after work.

This is a game about WHEN you pay taxes, not how much.

100% bonus depreciation means you can deduct the entire cost of the airplane in the first year IF you have income sufficient to offset the purchase price AND your business use that first year is 100%. But then in the subsequent years, you lack the depreciation deduction so your taxes are higher in those years had you not taken the bonus depreciation.

By accelerating the deduction, you save some on the time cost of money, about 15% depending on inflation. It isn't like you save the entire cost of the airplane.

Also, this applies only to the "business use" part of the airplane, and only if that is over 50% business use. For a personal owner, none of this applies.

You still need to pony up the dollars to get the plane, and that money is not earning money in an investment while sunk into the airplane. It is never the case spending more makes you richer.

Maybe there are rich idiots who think bonus depreciation gets them the airplane for "free". It can feel like that the first year, but it isn't true, of course.

Mike C.

These jet vs. buying a $5M+ TBM/M600-700 --- are very interesting.

TBM can't make these fast enough, nor can Piper. Why are folks who could hand over $5M buying them vs. a Jet. I bet there are dozens and dozens of reasons.

I would never strike a check for a $1M a CJ with old avionics, PL21, etc. Regardless if upgraded to some new stuff. Don't want to manage an older jet.

I also don't want to spend $5M+ when Mustangs and older M2's can be had for less, with all the corresponding increased OPEX costs. Also, don't want to spend $5M!

I love the Cirrus SF50, but won't do my main mission, 1000NM for 4People, NY to Florida at least 6-8 times a year. I want to do that mission 90% of the time. (The other day from NY to FL, there were 120kts headwinds at 29-30 feet. Mustangs, SETP, CVJ, all need stops. M2 even that day would struggle. May have needed stop per FF. A CJ3+, yes! Out of budget.

So, I sit paralyzed on decision making, as don't want old, but don't want to overpay for new and regret that I bought an older jet. etc. etc. etc. Also, don’t want a Meridian, or TBM700 or 800 series.

For my money, if I had $5M to spend and planned Opex, I'm buying an M2.

But it's so nuanced per person.

But......TBM........Piper...... selling them as fast as they can make them. For a reason.

Am I misinterpreting or does that mean the wait list for these is "only" 3 months or so? I was under the impression that pretty much any new turbine acquisition was a year plus wait.

Or were they already in line but pulled the trigger on the specific machine/delivery date in Oct or Nov?

Either way, congrats to them. They're beautiful airplanes.