My V AFM at 15,000 lbs and 30 C, no wind, say 3180 ft.

That is to 35 ft AGL after an engine failure at V1. That implies rotation at about 2200 ft.

The Ultra would be similar if not less.

Seems reasonable to me. The 560 series are very good short field airplanes.

Mike C.

CAA FBO at PBI wanted $300/night to park on ramp.
I was departing with 4 passengers so stayed in Stuart for 90/ night for the week.

3480 ft runway, with an engine failure at rotation? That doesn't feel like it would be "comfortable".

We were not charged an event fee at Jet Aviation ( the CAA vendor on field), but the TSA will set up crew and passenger screening while he is on the ground. We barely missed that rodeo a couple of months ago. The deal breaker is the $397/night ramp fees. Thats ridiculous considering Stuart is only 30 minutes up the road and charges $115/night, and their fuel is a bit cheaper also.

I wonder what distance profile if any makes the 350 a better choice.

Not specifically about a V vs a 350 but related.

I have a friend that flew King Airs the first few years of his career and later flew and managed Citations. He told me that he couldn’t understand why anyone would ever choose a King Air over a Citation. Don’t get me wrong, I do love King Airs. I do know from working on them early in my career that they do require much more maintenance and rigging. Especially the mechanical gear models.

Except for the B100 there is lost efficiency in turning the engine airflow 180 degrees twice and many more moving parts, more vibration, more wear etc. I would be fine with either though.

Having flown both I think they are equally easy to fly. The King Air is a little more forgiving to stick a landing with when your speed is off. I have flown quite a bit with a friend in Citations that could do incredibly short landings. I landed a 90 on my 2300’ grass strip and stopped before midfield. I don’t think any Citation can do that.

Biased score keeper.

You counted all the variations of the 350 and only one variation of the 560.

You should count all the variations of the 560, too. V, Ultra, Encore, Encore+. They differ in exactly the ways the 350s do, avionics and engines.

There are still more 350s, but it is a lot closer.

Of course, 44,000 172s were built, so if we judge by quantity built, that's the best airplane of all time.

Mike C.

With an engine failure?

I guess that is no more risk than the MU2 at KSQL. As long as the engines work, you are okay.

I don't even get numbers for all engines working. All my numbers presume an engine fails.

Mike C.

Light and on speed, you can stop in 1000 ft if you are aggressive on the brakes. The brakes on the V are amazing.

My MU2 could land shorter than the V, but it couldn't takeoff shorter, which effectively means the V didn't cut me out from any paved runway the MU2 could use. I didn't lose paved runway access with the V.

That was the most surprising thing about my plane that I did not expect, how short the runway usage is. Blew me away.

I did lose grass runways, though.

Mike C.

In the real world did you really lose them though? Would you be tempted to operate out of a grass field if your V was certified for it? (Honest question) and did you ever do it in the MU-2? I did a grass landing in Martha’s Vineyard during my initial training in a 172 and was astonished at how bumpy it was. Vowed I’d never do that again in any airplane. Certainly not doing it in a turbine I’m on the financial hook for.

Chip-

Chip,

Your original post said the Citation had a slightly higher operating cost. Can you elaborate on that? I would like to see how the numbers breakdown if you don’t mind sharing. Thanks!

Nishant

Well, I am comfortable with the level of risk represented by the odds of my engine failing within those few seconds where it matters. You used to be too, based on what I recall our past conversations relative to the MU2 risk factors.

You are pretty good at the data searches - how often do crashes actually occur in the precise moment of rotation?

Pretty sure there have been more King air crashes on departure than Citations.

I have never flown a King air so I have zero experience. I skipped the twin TP because of the risk of accident after roll out.

Lose an engine right after roll out in a KA and you better be on your A game. Same scenario in the V is a non event.

Mike

Yes, will do tomorrow.

True. PLM is a serious, but entirely preventable issue.