Sorry the first part was cut off it was phase 2/3

Well a few things I notice from that list. First, if prop overhauls are in the mix all bets are off. I don't know where you are located but out in here in CA we are down to like 2 major prop shops and their lead times are long. So that complicates things and is out of the maintenance shop's control. You have fuel nozzle inspection but it's only listed at $290. Is that the 400 hr inspection? If so that's kind of a big job that also typically requires an outside vendor. I don't know how they would do it for $290 per engine as it's close to 8 man hours per engine to get them out and in and that doesn't count the cost of the outside vendor or the parts (fuel nozzle gasket, qty 28 per engine, about $40 each). Also you have phase 45 which is a big one (maybe 50 man hours) requiring the vertical stabilizer to come off. If I went to Technicair with that list of work to be done I would not expect shorter than 4 weeks. If they told you 2-3 weeks then it seems like maybe the problem is an expectation sort of thing rather than missing a realistic schedule. If you are new to the 425 I would be happy to answer questions. scott@dockingdrawer.com

The latest data indicates we are short over 8,000 A&P's in the US alone. There aren't many new people coming into the business either, so this will get much worse over the next decade, as the oldest techs retire en masse.

It's the result of three decades of denigrating the trades, and telling kids they all need a bachelor's of fine arts degree. Now we have a few million unemployable college grads, and a vast shortage of all kinds of tradesmen.

Light aircraft owners as a group tend to be cheap. They pay $200 an hour at the BMW dealership without complaint, yet squawk about $90 for the airplane. So a mechanical minded kid will choose to work at the Ford dealership, rather than on airplanes. I can't tell you how many decent A&P's we have lost to auto dealerships, boat shops, and even NASCAR teams. Every week, shops have to deal with the potential loss of personnel that can get scooped up by well-heeled corporate operators. A shop can lose one mechanic in the middle of one project, and now the entire schedule is blown up. For months on end. Lose a key person, and the business can fold quickly.

The parts situation is terrible. Lead times are still too long, and unpredictable. Consolidation in manufacturers has resulted in massive price increases, but no increase in availability. In some cases, the core pool is non-existent, so you have to send your component in for rebuild. Many parts have been out of production for 20-40 years, since general aviation production peaked over 40 years ago.

For a pricing model, you should be comparing aircraft shops to Ferrari shops. They both work on expensive, limited production vehicles that require highly specialized skills and tools, and expensive replacement parts. Add in the liability of aircraft carrying high net worth individuals, personal liability for the mechanic due to Federal oversight, and the aircraft shop rates should be higher than the Ferrari shop.

Rents for commercial hangars are doubling and tripling. A simple 3500 square foot maintenance hangar in South Florida will command $7000 to 9000 per month. Plus utilities, insurance, etc. One big enough to park four turboprops or light jets will cost over $35k per month. How many oil changes does it take to break even?

I don't know what the long-term solution is, but if you have a good shop now, think of what will happen if they go away. And do whatever you can to keep them open. Communication is the key, yet owners don't spend the time to set expectations before handing over the keys. Shops are overloaded, so they are so focused on getting the jobs out, that advising the customer falls to the wayside. They need a full-time, A&P rated, shop manager/scheduler/customer service rep, which adds to the overhead, cutting margins even further. Or raise labor rates to the Ferrari level to pay for it. Hard choices all-around.

Sponsor scholarships at the closest A&P school. Donate tools and tool boxes to their aspiring students. Badger your politicians to include trades in the high schools, and get A&P schools added to career counselor lists in high school. Most HS career counselors don't even know their own state's trade schools exist. They primarily serve as a conduit to colleges or the military.

Exactly. Do everything you can to make things go smoothly with your shop.

Only 8K A&Ps….I hadn’t given that statistic much thought but it sounds like less than I would have thought. Most A&Ps are _not_ IAs so I wonder how many of those there are.

When I was working for a shop about 12 years ago I ran across a really good article that said A&P schools are the “Farm Team” for the rest of industry. Shared it with the owner. When I worked there he had 4 A&Ps who were all IAs, now he has 1 and a bunch of non A&Ps who come and go. The amount of schooling and testing I went thru to get my MX ratings and then gain practical knowledge is much more inline with what a doctor goes through. And in fact, when the job is done properly there isn’t much difference between the two IMO. My philosophy is the same…First, do no harm.

Edited to correct the number 3 to 4. Sorry Marc Bird…you were very gracious in sharing your knowledge with us.

Seems like every other week this thread gets started...

At some shops the shortage of knowledgeable techs is a self-inflicted wound. I know of a shop which thought a long time employee who was about to retired should get 15% less compensation to continue working part-time on special, technically challenging projects. Some shops can’t grasp reality because their head is so far into the sand.

When I managed a 441, the shop that we used for maintenance was usually pretty close to the planned time for work unless they found issues. I can only remember that happening once when a lightning strike was found, so it wasn't the shops fault for the delay.

I don't what part of the country you are in, but you are in the general area you might look at www.kubickaviation.com/ in Iron Mountain, MI and see if they fit your schedule a little better. They are good about planning scheduled events and know Twin Cessna's as well as anyone in the industry.

Thanks Everyone, we are located in South Carolina

Yes, because its an endless problem. Even with a completely open pocketbook and insane total maintenance expenses, my baron is down a substantial fraction of the time waiting for maintenance. I've had long delays and incorrectly done work with multiple shops. The shops are doing their best, but they are completely overloaded.

Piston GA suffers from the same problem as a lot of other areas. Certain activities are very popular, or command outsized attention from those very well off with what is essentially unlimited resources.

Any Econ 101 student could draw you a graph showing you what happens in those cases

All you have to do is read the EAA mag once or twice to understand that there are those out there with an unlimited checkbook. We’re at the inflection point now where the limited number of airframes/parts/services is on the wrong side of the curve. There’s no excess capacity, so the price on the remaining will spiral up based on the capacity of the very wealthy to pay, and that shows no sign of abating any time soon.

I have a simple, quick, effective way to reduce maintenance expenses, reduce maintenance risks, reduce downtime, and ease the overload at the shops.

Increase the "annual" inspection interval to 2 years.

We grossly over inspect our planes, subject them to unnecessary wear and tear from constant disassembly and reassembly, and subject ourselves to risks of maintenance induced faults. There is nothing magical about 12 months when it comes to a machine like an airplane, the interval is arbitrary.

My jet, considerably more complex and critical than the average piston airplane, is on an extended maintenance program where I do the equivalent of about half an annual every 3 years and a full annual every 6 years. Meanwhile all these piston airplanes are being torn apart every year and for major amounts of downtime. Does this make any sense?

The impact this inspection plan has on my expenses and up time is ENORMOUS like well over $20,000 per year and at least 3 if not 4 weeks per year. I actually think it makes things SAFER overall. Yes, there is the risk that a fault might be discovered later but I am certain that risk is much less than the post inspection risks of MIF.

Ask yourself which hour of flight you consider more dangerous, the last hour before inspection or the first hour after? We all know the answer to that. With the labor shortage at shops, the risks will increase.

If you fix things when you notice they are broken, keep your airplane well maintained generally, then a 2 year inspection interval is entirely reasonable, IMO.

To get this going, we need to collect data to show that MIFs are a real concern and that a 2 year interval is workable. I'd also use the extended intervals turbine equipment often has as justification. Then go to the FAA and petition for this change. It can happen if we push for it. Even if they limit it to a small subset of planes, say fixed gear singles, just getting the nose of the camel in the tent is a good start.

Mike C.

In my nearly 40 years in aviation, I believe there was never a time when some people didn't believe what you just wrote. The coming doom of GA has been predicted for ages.

I personally feel like we are in a pretty good age right now. Fuel isn't terribly expensive in inflation adjusted terms, avionics have never been better, planes are valuable and well kept, pilots are well informed through our forums, accidents are down, etc. We have GPS nav, GPS approaches, etc. It is actually a great time to be a pilot right now. All of you that pine for the good old days need to go back there and realize how much better we have it now.

Mike C.

The OP's 425 is likely on the Cessna AIP or a LUIP somewhat similar to your Citation. I doubt you'll stretch it longer.

However, for piston GA airplanes, it sounds like there is an opportunity for you to make million dollars (out of two million) by writing and gaining approval for an AIP program and selling it.