29 Jun 2025, 12:22 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Ultra restoration Posted: 22 Jul 2023, 14:16 |
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Joined: 11/08/12 Posts: 7396 Post Likes: +4863 Location: Live in San Carlos, CA - based Hayward, CA KHWD
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
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Username Protected wrote: … It is a special “solar reflective” black that Yingling sourced; it was expensive (+$15k) but it works. And 250+ hours later it still looks incredible. I do believe that modern dark paints perform much better. Does look nice! Kinda seems like if they have special solar paint in black, they could make the special solar in white and do even that much better at keeping things cool. 
_________________ -Jon C.
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Post subject: Re: Ultra restoration Posted: 22 Jul 2023, 17:51 |
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Joined: 09/06/13 Posts: 92 Post Likes: +62 Location: Orlando, FL
Aircraft: PA27, BE9L, CE560XL
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Username Protected wrote: … It is a special “solar reflective” black that Yingling sourced; it was expensive (+$15k) but it works. And 250+ hours later it still looks incredible. I do believe that modern dark paints perform much better. Does look nice! Kinda seems like if they have special solar paint in black, they could make the special solar in white and do even that much better at keeping things cool. 
Would stand to reason Jon…
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Post subject: Re: Ultra restoration Posted: 22 Jul 2023, 23:10 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 20395 Post Likes: +25581 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: Besides, your BUYERS totally judge the quality of your maintenance by the appearance of your machine. FIFY. Paint jobs sell planes, no doubt. You can be "not ugly" and not be a solar collector, too. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Ultra restoration Posted: 17 Aug 2023, 22:23 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 20395 Post Likes: +25581 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: We finished the Ultra HT Blade regrowing, hots Tell me more about that. Who does it, what did the hots cost for the -5D engine? Now if only we can get an autopilot STC, then we can ditch those Primus 1000 screens and gain 400-500 lbs useful load (and make the cost of operation go way down, too). Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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Post subject: Re: Ultra restoration Posted: 18 Aug 2023, 07:34 |
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Joined: 05/05/09 Posts: 5204 Post Likes: +5226
Aircraft: C501, R66, A36
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Username Protected wrote: Is that one for sale?? Already Presold.
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Post subject: Re: Ultra restoration Posted: 18 Aug 2023, 07:38 |
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Joined: 05/05/09 Posts: 5204 Post Likes: +5226
Aircraft: C501, R66, A36
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Username Protected wrote: We finished the Ultra HT Blade regrowing, hots Tell me more about that. Who does it, what did the hots cost for the -5D engine? Now if only we can get an autopilot STC, then we can ditch those Primus 1000 screens and gain 400-500 lbs useful load (and make the cost of operation go way down, too). Mike C.
The values of all of these Citations is going to go up significantly when a modern AP gets approved.
Hots aren't significantly more for the 5D than the other JT15D variants. All in, $135Kish total for both. More than half of that was blade regrowing and a combustion liner so I believe a "typical" hot going forward would be $35K aside. Flight support is the place that regrows blades, text me and I will give you the guy's contact. Your 5A blades are an order of magnitude cheaper than 5D blades.
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Post subject: Re: Ultra restoration Posted: 18 Aug 2023, 08:52 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 20395 Post Likes: +25581 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: The values of all of these Citations is going to go up significantly when a modern AP gets approved. I specifically avoided buying an Ultra, partly on your advice. The two factors were the lack of an autopilot meant I could not fully Garminize it (had to keep the Primus 1000 system due to AP being integrated into it) and the excessively high cost and short lived HT blades of the -5D engine. With my V, I can get the much lower cost HT blades (which are the same as -4, so there are used ones in the market, the -5D are unique). And I fully Garminized it to save weight, cost, etc. If there is a modern autopilot available for the Ultra and the HT blades can be saved by some process, then the Ultra becomes a very valuable airplane. The extra 290 lbs thrust doesn't sound like much, but it means no step climbs directly to FL450. Despite having "larger" engines, the Ultra range is actually a bit higher than the V due to the ability to get higher faster. Otherwise, the Ultra is basically just the V with the uprated engines, not much else changed. Somewhere in the middle of the Ultra range, the freon system went R-134a from the factory, but my plane was converted after the fact. At some point, the Ultra gut the new steps from the factory, too. But otherwise, outside some interior tweaks, it is basically a V with a slightly bigger motor. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
Last edited on 19 Aug 2023, 00:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: Ultra restoration Posted: 18 Aug 2023, 09:33 |
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Joined: 05/05/09 Posts: 5204 Post Likes: +5226
Aircraft: C501, R66, A36
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Username Protected wrote: Can you tell me the empty weight of this Ultra?
Just curious.
Mike C. 9471
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Post subject: Re: Ultra restoration Posted: 18 Aug 2023, 09:44 |
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Joined: 12/03/14 Posts: 20395 Post Likes: +25581 Company: Ciholas, Inc Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
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Username Protected wrote: 9471 Garminization would likely get this close to 9100 lbs, particularly given a new autopilot. That would be a full fuel payload of about 1600 lbs. Outstanding. Mike C.
_________________ Email mikec (at) ciholas.com
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