BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Dec 2022, 13:07

Username Protected wrote:

I don't know much about them except they remind me of the Beech Starship in design; a plane we don't hear much about on Beech Talk. Not many owners I guess.

Beech scrapped almost all of them. There are a couple dozen surviving airframes, mostly used for parts for the handful still flying. I believe an owner or ownership group bought all of the spare parts from Beech.

Looks like there is at least one Starship owner on the forum.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Dec 2022, 14:55

Thanks Mat and John. I notice on the Starship and the single-engine Velocity the rudders are on the wing tips with the tip sails, but the twin-engine Velocity has a conventional vertical stab and rudder.

For engine-out yaw control I'd rather have the conventional stab and rudder firmly anchored in he fuselage for strength, although the Starship didn't see it as a problem.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Dec 2022, 19:47

Username Protected wrote:

Thanks Mat and John. I notice on the Starship and the single-engine Velocity the rudders are on the wing tips with the tip sails, but the twin-engine Velocity has a conventional vertical stab and rudder.

For engine-out yaw control I'd rather have the conventional stab and rudder firmly anchored in he fuselage for strength, although the Starship didn't see it as a problem.

The winglet rudders don't have enough authority with an engine out. The first v-twin didn't have any winglets. But buyers didn't like that so small winglets were added. According to people I've talked who've flown the V-twin, an engine out is a non-event. Add a little rudder trim and it flies like it does on both engines (just slower).

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Dec 2022, 21:41

Username Protected wrote:

Thanks Mat and John. I notice on the Starship and the single-engine Velocity the rudders are on the wing tips with the tip sails, but the twin-engine Velocity has a conventional vertical stab and rudder.

For engine-out yaw control I'd rather have the conventional stab and rudder firmly anchored in he fuselage for strength, although the Starship didn't see it as a problem.

The winglet rudders don't have enough authority with an engine out. The first v-twin didn't have any winglets. But buyers didn't like that so small winglets were added. According to people I've talked who've flown the V-twin, an engine out is a non-event. Add a little rudder trim and it flies like it does on both engines (just slower).

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Dec 2022, 22:31

Username Protected wrote:

The winglet rudders don't have enough authority with an engine out. The first v-twin didn't have any winglets. But buyers didn't like that so small winglets were added. According to people I've talked who've flown the V-twin, an engine out is a non-event. Add a little rudder trim and it flies like it does on both engines (just slower).

I made the assumption that the Starship wing tip-mounted rudders would handle engine-out yaw. No? It seems an enlargement of the SE Velocity rudders would have been simpler than converting to single vertical stab and rudder.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 27 Dec 2022, 22:44

Username Protected wrote:

A pair of 10.4" HXr's with a GTN625 (they couldn't get the bugs out of their IFR remote GPS). The EIS box is located on the rear bulkhead.

It really was a pleasure flying behind the GRT's. It had more bells and whistles than I ever needed. The primary AHRS had an issue inflight once in hard IMC. The A/P automatically switched over the secondary without a bump. My first indication of a problem was a "ding" from the EFIS.

That's a very functional and clean panel, Don. A pleasure to fly behind I'm sure!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Dec 2022, 00:11

The wing tip rudders have limited yaw authority and strong roll coupling. The conventional vertical stabilizer and rudder on the V-twin should be a better design in my opinion, although I don’t know how well they executed it.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Dec 2022, 01:25

Username Protected wrote:

There is a really nice one down in Oceanside CA I need to go see. Previously the owner had a Baron and moved on to this experimental.

The owner/builder of that aircraft is a super nice guy, and is often at his hangar at OKB. Seems like you run at least a 50% chance of crossing paths with him if you show up sometime. He's former airline, and is very approachable.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Dec 2022, 08:12

Thanks, once I get the 310 out of annual and back out to California I’ll be making a few beach trips down there and hope to find him. I tried sending him an email from his website but it doesn’t look like he is maintaining that any longer.
Happy New year everyone!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Dec 2022, 08:17

A good friend is building a jet powered Velocity, using, I think a RR centrifugal design engine. He claims there is a small ram air pressurisation effect?

download/file.php?mode=view&id=397006

I believe he is hoping for around 300 KTAS at FL180 and around 1000nm range.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Dec 2022, 09:17

Username Protected wrote:

A good friend is building a jet powered Velocity, using, I think a RR centrifugal design engine. He claims there is a small ram air pressurisation effect?

download/file.php?mode=view&id=397006

I believe he is hoping for around 300 KTAS at FL180 and around 1000nm range.

I'm not familiar with this one. Where is it located?

There have been a few jet powered Velocity's. Just about all have either crashed or been converted back to piston. The numbers just don't work out. 300kts with an hour or two endurance isn't enough of a benefit over 200kts and 6 hours.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Dec 2022, 09:24

Hi Don somewhere in Patagonia! The design seems to have some extra fuel tanks on the wings? A TN A36 might be more practical and use less runway

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Dec 2022, 10:33

Username Protected wrote:

Hi Don somewhere in Patagonia! The design seems to have some extra fuel tanks on the wings? A TN A36 might be more practical and use less runway

I'd have to agree. With no windmilling prop, that thing it going to use a lot of runway on the landing roll.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 28 Dec 2022, 11:08

Username Protected wrote:

Thanks, once I get the 310 out of annual and back out to California I’ll be making a few beach trips down there and hope to find him. I tried sending him an email from his website but it doesn’t look like he is maintaining that any longer.
Happy New year everyone!

I don’t have has contact info, but I’ll track it down for you and send it via PM once I get it.