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02 Jul 2025, 07:07 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2 pilot jets per mile
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2022, 20:33 
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Joined: 09/26/09
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Company: ElitAire
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No Anthony - not another movement!


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2 pilot jets per mile
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2022, 21:12 
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Joined: 03/03/11
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Don’t worry Matt / I am just doing research ;)

Mike - your plane is awesome and if I ever move from Piaggio it’s hard to imagine it not being a V or an Ultra. That said hard to imagine doubling fuel burn and only going 10% faster with a foot less cabin height!


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2 pilot jets per mile
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2022, 00:49 
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Joined: 03/23/08
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The Lear 31a is what you want.
We’ve gone over this…

Ask yourself: what do the Air Ambulance people choose (and why).

It’s the Camry Wagon of jets.

There is no other choice, prove me wrong :dance:

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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2 pilot jets per mile
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2022, 01:25 
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Astra SPX I think is the best value in crewed aircraft, if not the absolute cheapest. It’s ugly but it is hard to compete with the value proposition. You can even pretend it’s a Gulfstream.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2 pilot jets per mile
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2022, 01:44 
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Joined: 12/25/12
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Location: KRHV San Jose, CA
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Been looking at Lear 60s on Controller lately. Seem like a lot of bang for the buck and a very nice cabin. A person who managed one claims it’s one of the least expensive per mile two pilot jets.

What would one budget, annually, for operating one of these? 200 - 300 hours per year.

What else is that fast and also economical?

Curious from those who have run them what the cheapest two pilot jets are to run? Ignore the Ultra Bravo etc. familiar w those costs.



You must have been doing more then looking, all the ads I see say “Call for price”

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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2 pilot jets per mile
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2022, 01:46 
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Joined: 11/30/12
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Location: Santa Fe, NM (KSAF)
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Astra SPX I think is the best value in crewed aircraft, if not the absolute cheapest. It’s ugly but it is hard to compete with the value proposition. You can even pretend it’s a Gulfstream.


With all the money you save, you can pay to extend your favorite runways to make them long enough. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2 pilot jets per mile
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2022, 02:09 
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Username Protected wrote:
Astra SPX I think is the best value in crewed aircraft, if not the absolute cheapest. It’s ugly but it is hard to compete with the value proposition. You can even pretend it’s a Gulfstream.


With all the money you save, you can pay to extend your favorite runways to make them long enough. :lol:


They need less runway than a Lear 60!

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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2 pilot jets per mile
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2022, 09:10 
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Doesn’t the Astra hold a million gallons of fuel?

Not sure how the controls are actuated but if I wanted cheap I’d be looking for cables and pushrods over hydraulics and hoses with service life limits and leaks.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2 pilot jets per mile
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2022, 09:45 
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I believe the 60 is like the 35 in that all primary flight controls are cables, but they still have life limits of 2400 hours/eight years.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2 pilot jets per mile
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2022, 10:58 
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Doesn’t the Astra hold a million gallons of fuel?

Not sure how the controls are actuated but if I wanted cheap I’d be looking for cables and pushrods over hydraulics and hoses with service life limits and leaks.


Like another one of my favorite airplanes it has Garretts and enough range to get you wherever you want to go with fuel to spare.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2 pilot jets per mile
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2022, 11:09 
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Joined: 04/19/09
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Location: White Lake, MI (KPTK)
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Ask yourself: what do the Air Ambulance people choose (and why).


Most have switched to the 45. Also, the most common Medevac was by far the 35. The 31 has short legs. The availability of parts was the biggest push to switch to the 45.

Maybe this has changed. I’ve have been out of the Medevac arena for about 10 years.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2 pilot jets per mile
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2022, 12:18 
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Dont let Jet Elite envy move you out of the Piaggio. You would have to spend serious money to get more cabin than you have, and there is no way you can come close to the cost per mile you have now.
Jets are cool. Till you feed and water them. I just cant imagine any jet that could come close to the utility you enjoy now, considering single pilot, speed, and operating costs.

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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2 pilot jets per mile
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2022, 17:11 
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It can’t be THAT hard to find SIC, especially if you have a reasonable schedule.

Bwthdik


historically you would be right - not anymore.

biggest consideration is insurance. If any com/mel will do, that's not too hard. if you need someone with paperwork (sim/type, etc) ... get out the checkbook.

And the market is nuts. Regional airline jobs have finally (in just the last few months) started paying well. New hires are making $100/hr and that's for the ones that cannot upgrade immediately. Anyone who has 1500 hours has no reason to not be at a regional. And anyone with less than 1500 hours is going to be laser focused on getting those hours fast.


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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2 pilot jets per mile
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2022, 17:29 
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Joined: 03/23/08
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Aircraft: IAR823, LrJet, 240Z
Username Protected wrote:
Doesn’t the Astra hold a million gallons of fuel?

Not sure how the controls are actuated but if I wanted cheap I’d be looking for cables and pushrods over hydraulics and hoses with service life limits and leaks.


Like another one of my favorite airplanes it has Garretts and enough range to get you wherever you want to go with fuel to spare.

One of our Astra clients told me they flew Hawaii to SDL and dropped some passengers, then continued up to Page, AZ and had plenty left.

I'd hate to fill that sucker up! Banging off the credit limiter on every card hit.
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 Post subject: Re: Cheapest 2 pilot jets per mile
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2022, 17:33 
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Joined: 03/03/11
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Dont let Jet Elite envy move you out of the Piaggio. You would have to spend serious money to get more cabin than you have, and there is no way you can come close to the cost per mile you have now.
Jets are cool. Till you feed and water them. I just cant imagine any jet that could come close to the utility you enjoy now, considering single pilot, speed, and operating costs.


Very unlikely I move on from Piaggio unless something happens where fleet is unsupported. It fits my missions well.

That said, it’s fun to dream and research!

Astras are cool but looking at old thread on them, cheap to run the seem to not be. They do seem reliable and carry tons of fuel which I like.

TJ / Lear 31 is too small. I am not sure I could go back to a midget stand up cabin. You get spoiled quickly by 5’8”. Also Piaggio is crazy quiet. 70db today at FL410. I have heard little Lear’s are a lot louder.


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