BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Mar 2022, 18:38

Username Protected wrote:

. You just can't touch the economics of an MU2.

I disagree with this statement, everyone who says this focuses solely on miles per dollar figures, which is a subset of opex

There are many other factors to consider when computing costs, for example what is the max liability one can get with a MU2 policy? Has anyone gotten $3m? $5m?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Mar 2022, 18:49

Username Protected wrote:

for example what is the max liability one can get with a MU2 policy? Has anyone gotten $3m? $5m?

I currently have $3M (just renewed). Last year they did drop my $5M to $3M. For a few years running the premiums have risen significantly also.

My impression is that's a largely industry-wide phenomenon for all types, though.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Mar 2022, 18:55

Username Protected wrote:

From my thread on the 414A vs 421C i received several suggestions to consider the MU-2.

Hi Vic,
What's your flight experience? Are you multi + instrument rated? How many hours in multi?

MU2 legally requires (via Subpart N) that you have 100 hrs multi to act as PIC. In practice I think most people do better in the MU2 when they have some amount of high performance time (i.e. at least pressurized piston twin) with a decent amount of instrument experience.

That said, I owned a twin Cessna 340 and moved to the Mu2 and it was doable. I had about 1000 hours in the twin cessna. I went to Simcom for the 340 many of the 10 years of my ownership and that experience helped me be better prepared for the training environment of the MU2.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Mar 2022, 18:55

Username Protected wrote:

. You just can't touch the economics of an MU2.

I disagree with this statement, everyone who says this focuses solely on miles per dollar figures, which is a subset of opex

There are many other factors to consider when computing costs, for example what is the max liability one can get with a MU2 policy? Has anyone gotten $3m? $5m?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Mar 2022, 19:05

Just got $25MM on two Commanders fwiw.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Mar 2022, 19:28

Bruce - at what premium and hull value?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Mar 2022, 19:30

Username Protected wrote:

Just got $25MM on two Commanders fwiw.

Is that packaged with the EMB500?

Jon, Who is your underwriter? If it's Brown, nobody can get it.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Mar 2022, 19:43

Username Protected wrote:

In all of the years that I had a potty it was used once, and if its for #2, they would have to go outside to my smoking section.

I found the potty quite useful (for pee) on multiple occasions, and for adults, although I often provided champagne to my passengers, lol.

Wal-mart sells these great camp toilet bags. Should a pax need to offload solid waste, the bags can be double zip-loc sealed.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Mar 2022, 20:18

Username Protected wrote:

Just got $25MM on two Commanders fwiw.

For owner/operator flown? Or on 135?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Mar 2022, 20:19

Username Protected wrote:

Jon, Who is your underwriter?

Starr

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Mar 2022, 20:33

Username Protected wrote:

Just got $25MM on two Commanders fwiw.

For owner/operator flown? Or on 135?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Mar 2022, 22:24

Username Protected wrote:

I see Naples Jet Center in the signature... it can be a different world if you are an FBO with managed A/C, pro-pilots, GL and all the other stuff.

When the total premium pile gets big enough you do hit different goodies.

And note that some of these policies discussed above have been around for a LONG time and they get treated differently than New people.

T

Of course that’s true Tom. I was kinda thinking they were giving me a hard time by not offering $50 or 100MM since I’ve been around a long time but the company is formally young and it’s a new world in insurance. My piston twin has $2MM and the turbine $25MM. That’s what I could get. For planes I own and fly personally.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Mar 2022, 23:30

Username Protected wrote:

From my thread on the 414A vs 421C i received several suggestions to consider the MU-2. That got me thinking more generally. What problem am I trying to solve? So, I am interested in feedback on best plane for the following mission:

6 people (pilot + 5 passengers - or 4 with a co-pilot) = 1,020 lbs
240 lbs luggage
600 nm typical trip, though some will be as short as 200 nm
Region: St. Louis based, with flights to Denver, Anne Arbor, Charlotte, Dallas
Lav onboard: if block time exceeds 2.5 hrs. In other words, no potty is needed if block time less than 2.5 hrs.

Primary considerations: Passenger comfort, dispatch rate, low operating costs
Not as important: block time or speed

What aircraft would you suggest? We can be flexible on acquisition costs, since capital is not hard to come by, but ongoing OPEX needs to be kept as low as possible. Also, many of these flights will be owner flown, though some may include a safety pilot for the foreseeable future.

I really need to stress passenger comfort. For this to work, the 4/5 passengers should feel they are riding in something more akin to a limo than a farm tractor - while not breaking my monthly operating budget. Is this too much to ask?

Vic.

If passenger impressions are #1, and it must have props for opex, it has to be a King Air.
441/MU2/etc won't seem nearly as sturdy/impressive to a passenger.
Pistons are definitely out.

If capex really isn't an issue, the increase in opex for a jet will be a rounding error, so I'd say a CJ2 is the best fit.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 09 Mar 2022, 10:40

Obviously, it depends on your budget. If I were you, I'd check out the Piper Navajo series. It will fit your mission with good operating reliability, economics and passenger comfort.

If there is any doubt about this, just look on FlightAware any given morning at the models of the planes you are considering, and see how many are actively flying each day/night. It will tell you a lot... some of it, your eyes may not want to see or reckon with.

FlightAware.com -- Flight Tracking -- Browse by Aircraft Type.

Here's the codes:

Beech 18 = BE18
Baron 58 = BE58
Duke = BE60
Navajo = PA31
King Air 90 = BE9L
King Air 200 = BE20
KIng Air 350 = B350
Cessna 414 = C414
Cessna 421 = C421
Cessna 441 = C441
MU2 = MU2
Commander 900 = AC90

You get the idea...

Spoiler Alert: The most popular piston twin is the Piper Navajo. The most popular twin turboprop is the King Air 200. There are reasons for this. It may not be what you want to hear. It just is what it is. The numbers don't lie.
:whistle: