15 Jul 2025, 06:29 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Where's my twin Malibu?  Posted: 04 Sep 2020, 17:50 |
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Joined: 10/04/19
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Company: Capella Partners
Location: Alpine Airpark, 46U
Aircraft: P35, TW Pacer
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Username Protected wrote: It's too bad Adam got jet fever... I think that distraction ultimately killed the company and deprived the market if an otherwise viable A500. Aerostar barely survived their brush with that particular illness. -J
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Post subject: Re: Where's my twin Malibu? Posted: 04 Sep 2020, 18:38 |
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Joined: 11/08/12
Posts: 405
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Location: Everson, WA
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Username Protected wrote: It's too bad Adam got jet fever... I think that distraction ultimately killed the company and deprived the market if an otherwise viable A500. Aerostar barely survived their brush with that particular illness. -J
I'd be interested in reading more about this. I know they built a jet and sort of stalled on its certification. I hadn't heard that it nearly killed the company.
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Post subject: Re: Where's my twin Malibu? Posted: 04 Sep 2020, 22:20 |
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Joined: 01/02/12
Posts: 380
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Fast, cheap and capable.....pick two
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Post subject: Re: Where's my twin Malibu? Posted: 04 Sep 2020, 23:18 |
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Joined: 06/28/09
Posts: 14389
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Location: Walnut Creek, CA (KCCR)
Aircraft: 1962 Twin Bonanza
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Username Protected wrote: Do you all remember Piper's idea for a single engine jet? I think they came to their senses... they should just focus on making the M700, a meridian with a little more elbow and headroom.
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Last edited on 04 Sep 2020, 23:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Post subject: Re: Where's my twin Malibu? Posted: 04 Sep 2020, 23:29 |
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Joined: 03/22/14
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Location: KMYF/ Kamiah, ID
Aircraft: C525, AC90
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Maybe the closest you can get right now to a “new” turbine twin is a Turbine Commander Grand Renaissance re-build. Similar to the Nextant program for jets. A 1000 model airframe candidate plus a million dollar tip to tail rebuild gets you a new 300kt. FL350 twin with an active company still around to support the airframe. Figure 2.2mil or more? Seems like a new clean sheet design would have to be much more than that. New king air prices or jet prices. I’m thinking it would be hard to compete. Unless it was a Cirrus and had a chute. 
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Post subject: Re: Where's my twin Malibu? Posted: 04 Sep 2020, 23:39 |
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Joined: 05/03/12
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Location: Wichita, KS
Aircraft: Mooney 201
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Username Protected wrote: [
Aerostar barely survived their brush with that particular illness.
-J I'd be interested in reading more about this. I know they built a jet and sort of stalled on its certification. I hadn't heard that it nearly killed the company.
Everyone was trying to make a jet back then... Remember the VLJ fad? Eclipse, Visionaire, Piper, Adam, etc...
Adam had a reasonably good piston twin that filled a big void in the market and it was close to being finished/certified/matured enough to be a success. But they got jet fever and tried to adapt that airframe to a jet and it didn't make a very good one. Shocker. They burned though their capital and missed the opportunity to refine the A500, get it into serial production and make it a success in pursuit of the VLJ fantasy.
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Post subject: Re: Where's my twin Malibu? Posted: 05 Sep 2020, 10:31 |
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Joined: 10/04/14
Posts: 493
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Company: Take Flight Avaition.
Location: Franklin, TN
Aircraft: Piper PA46 Jet Prop
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Username Protected wrote: Do you all remember Piper's idea for a single engine jet? I must say I think the Diamond Jet looked better then the Piper jet. It would have been awesome if either company had been able to get there aircraft to market.
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Post subject: Re: Where's my twin Malibu? Posted: 05 Sep 2020, 11:35 |
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Joined: 11/22/12
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Location: Lynnwood, WA (KPAE)
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Username Protected wrote: I must say I think the Diamond Jet looked better then the Piper jet. Attachment: 17D9228.2_RT_grid_gallery.jpg Looks pretty similar to the Diamond Jet. Second prototype now flying.
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Post subject: Re: Where's my twin Malibu? Posted: 07 Sep 2020, 00:04 |
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Joined: 05/03/18
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Username Protected wrote: Jourdan,
Now a Cirrus with pressurization, 6 seats, parachute and airplane would sell like brats at Lambeau Field.... Attachment: Screen Shot 2020-09-06 at 8.59.29 PM.png
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Post subject: Re: Where's my twin Malibu? Posted: 07 Sep 2020, 03:32 |
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Joined: 10/04/19
Posts: 652
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Company: Capella Partners
Location: Alpine Airpark, 46U
Aircraft: P35, TW Pacer
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Username Protected wrote: Jourdan,
Now a Cirrus with pressurization, 6 seats, parachute and airplane would sell like brats at Lambeau Field.... Attachment: Screen Shot 2020-09-06 at 8.59.29 PM.png
Indeed the SF50 has sold like brats at Lambeau field. A natural step up from the SR22T, which was previously the Piper M series or TBM. God forbid a Cirrus pilot earn a multi rating (look away, Coburn).
However, the range/UL trade-offs are quite dear. I recall a friend who owns one being limited to 2 pax on a trip from SMO to JAC. That seems absurd. I've flown it and was less-than-surprised to find it skyhawk-easy to manage. Imagine, 70 yrs makes a difference in aircraft design that impacts usability. Still want my composite FADEC G3000 421c.
I'll give cirrus this - I'm impressed at the sale price to which they were able to engineer the vision jet.
-J
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Post subject: Re: Where's my twin Malibu? Posted: 07 Sep 2020, 06:54 |
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Joined: 11/25/11
Posts: 9015
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Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
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Username Protected wrote: With all the talk about Diamond's new HPSE and Mooney's attempts to build a relevant airplane, I have to wonder: Where is the twin malibu?
Where is the modern pressurized twin piston? When was the last 421C made, 1985?
Is the cost gap between building and operating a pressurized twin piston and a pressurized twin turbine really that low? It can't be. Look at the cost delta between a new G58 Baron and a new baby King Air. Millions.
Corporate flight departments that are restricted to twins by executive insurance generally do not need turbines to comply. Personally I think it's absurd that an adjuster could find a Baron safer than a Pilatus or TBM, but it is what it is, and it's widespread.
Build:
-A modern 6-place aircraft
-Powered by twin turbo FADEC piston engines
-Out of composites
-With a G3000 w/ autoland
-And a parachute
-That's pressurized
-And takes 2000 pounds 1200 miles at 250 KTAS
No gear inspection or calendar items. Annual it like a baron. No half-a-million-dollar sword of damocles hanging off each wing.
How does this not exist? I know certification is expensive. The DA50 must have been pricey to certify, and it solves ... no problems.
-J Piper started making it years ago. They called it the Meridian. The larger version is called a Pilatus. Jg
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