B models are through 1975. Straight leg Cs start in 1976. Trailing link Cs start in 1980. Why that didn't warrant a change to 421D I don't know.

I find the C changes compelling. No bladders, ridiculously simpler fuel system, hydraulic gear, no tip tank. Gear rigging on the electromechanical B models should be done often, it is a non issue on the C.

I think only the 1975 B model can be known ice, all the C models can be.

Mike C.

Jim, I disagree with the assessment TTCF forums are "almost dead." While it does have less traffic than BT almost dead implies low or declining value, and neither of those are true. As you say the content is high quality, and traffic seems to be increasing. It is a no brainer for a potential owner to join.

I also see that Tim has already joined and posted an inquiry to sit in a 421C, so our being in agreement that he should join has been accomplished.

In terms of volume, the active topics page on TTCF has only 30 threads updated in the last month. That's pretty dead in my book. (BT has 30 threads updated in the last 66 minutes.)

BT ROCKS. Nothing else is even close.

I think we're running into a definitional issue. Dead can mean quiet - "Downtown Omaha is dead at night" or dead can mean bereft of life "Detroit is dead."

As far as I can tell TTCF is a going concern and there's no reason to think the low-volume, high quality forum will be any different two years from now. It's not in a death spiral like some other places.

I have a different data point on JTA. I looked at a 340 with him. Could tell quickly I didn't like the 340. Told Jerry I could likely be talked into a nice 421 (he didn't have anything he liked at the time.) Two weeks later he listed a 421 that Neal had previously listed that I had lusted after from a far.

Waited and waited on the phone call - I wanted to be talked into buying it - and probably could have been. Call didn't come. Bought a 58P instead. Just as the 58P closed (months later) the call came. JTA lost that listing without selling.

JTA is no Neal. Or the 340's might just be better for him - he seems to move those more quickly.

I really appreciate the insight guys , lots of great stuff on this thread. It's part of "my process" in buying a new plane and being comfortable with the educated decision. Going forward- I do have budget as we all do..

I've thought about an early model 74-78 B model mechanical sound and build the plane up with interior, paint, avionics. etc.. I do think there is some merit to the 79 straight leg-- The delta is not worth it to me for the trailing link, etc.....

I've tapped TAS as a support staff in the search and hired them as the consultant. I simply felt more comfortable with them rather then JTA.. ( just a feeling ). I do know Juan in Dallas and have reached out to him for planes. Juan did the annual on my P when I bought it.

I also joined the Twin Cessna forum as educational and PM owners.

Buying a plane takes time for things to fall into place.. Rush a purchase and one will pay..

The 421 is the right choice for us to be comfortable in our travels. I'm excited to trick this plane out from paint and interior ..

Again -- Great input I appreciate all the points given.





EDIT: PLEASE DON'T BE BASHFUL ON RECOMMENDING PLANES ON CONTROLLER or elsewhere
tdoreenjr@gmail.com

B is 1970 to 1975.

C straight leg is 1976 to 1979.

C trailing link is 1980 and later.

Known ice capable is 1975 B model and all C models.

Mike C.

Thanks Mike-- If I studied this hard in college I'd be in the back of the plane rather than flying it

I think Jerry really knows his twin Cessna's, but he's a one man operation. I talked to him briefly prior to purchasing our 421. There's a "fox guarding the hen house" issue wth his operation. While he will tell you he will look for anything you want, he'll push you towards his own listings first, as he should, and that's when I lost interest in his services. YMMV.

C models have the early Citation wet wing. 76 thru 1980 have the "L"engine which IMHO is the best. 81 and later have the N engine with a different fuel pump, and oil line on top to keep the fuel valve from freezing and a seventh injector in the intake manifold to make hot starts easier. The trailing link gear adds 90 pounds to the weight and makes the pilot look very good on every landing.

84 and 85's are really the "18" 1982 unfinished airframes that were left out in the weeds and finished in 84 and 85 with canabalized parts from the conquest one production line. They are not worth the extra premium in price. They are all about 100 pounds heavier from the extra corrosion proofing needed from being left outside when the market crashed in 1982.

Can someone provide a run through on the fuel systems?

Let me see if I have this correct, the mains feed the engines. Lockers feed the mains.

So, if your mains have 100 gallons, and the lockers have 50, you run the mains to 50, then transfer the 50 in the locker to the mains. Now you have 100 left (after burning 50).

On the other, newer models there are no lockers, just a big main (wet wing). Is this correct?

I have seen some videos where people have installed gauges for the lockers if the airplane is so equipped. Is this worth it?

And there is a cross feed regardless of model incase you get an imbalance right?

For B models, you have mains (tips), aux (in wing), and possible locker tanks (in nacelle).

Burn mains down some amount. Burn aux tanks. Some fuel returns to main during aux burn. Finally, transfer lockers to mains. It's a bit like running a chemical plant, got to get the sequence right.


Lockers are also possible on C models. In this case, just burn down the main tank some amount, then transfer locker. Way simpler.


I doubt it.


Yes.

Also in case of extended single engine operation (say over water).

Mike C.

You have it right. But for others wondering, on the "B" models it sounds confusing but it's not, it's very easy. It gives you something to do at FL 250 besides watching movies

Can anyone advise some of the high ticket MX items to replace on the 421C?
Areas to look at ?