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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2021, 06:04 
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Aircraft: Aerostar Superstar 2
What's your fuel burn going almost as fast, Anthony? ;) :stir:

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2021, 11:31 
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Joined: 04/24/18
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Location: NYC
Aircraft: ISP Eagle II SR22 g2
Username Protected wrote:
What's your fuel burn going almost as fast, Anthony? ;) :stir:


At 410 around 350kt so not quite almost as fast but about 550lb so half the burn.


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2021, 12:23 
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Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
FL410 it really depends on weights and temps, but 480-500lbs per hour and 350kts is a good average number. Per my flightware profiles, an Ultra would be exactly double the fuel burn for me on an annual basis. It was ISA +19 last week, I would not have made FL410, I was doing about 335kts at FL390. Anything above ISA +15 really slows it down, although, I assume it does small jets too. My fuel burn drops at those temps though, I was burning about 400lbs/hr.

My mission keeps evolving to basically just be 1300nm trips. I can do the return into a 30kt or less wind. It is just me most of the time. Would be nice to never have to stop on the return with a V or an Ultra. That may start to matter if my trip frequency increases. Every plane trades something off, the Piaggio cabin is really really nice and would be tough to give up.


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2021, 15:38 
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Location: NYC
Aircraft: ISP Eagle II SR22 g2
Dupe


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2021, 17:01 
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Username Protected wrote:
Yes, correct. No avionics aft of the throttles.

GCU 485 above pilot PFD. This was not the first proposed layout (FD mode above PFD, GCU 485 in center panel), but I had that changed and I'm glad I did. The FD mode is something the copilot may want to change, and they can do everything the GCU 485 can do on their PFD.

You play with the AP pitch wheel quite a bit, so having that in a short pedestal may be preferred for some. I've found it works pretty well as done. I could be convinced it would be better to swap FD mode and AP panel left/right, or not.

There are a lot of little things to get right with these panel retrofits.

Mike C.

Mike, are the pilot's and co-pilot's PFD's driven by the same AHRS, or do they each have an independent AHRS?

Also, what's your preferred headset for the 560?

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 04 Jul 2021, 23:34 
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Joined: 02/03/13
Posts: 492
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Location: Caldwell Tx
Aircraft: B55 Pres !!, 501 SP
Username Protected wrote:
I started like us all, Then B-55 Pres II, Cheyenne I Turboprop, Now citation 501 SP


Gary, how was your Cheyenne experience? Can you make a comparison between the Cheyenne and the 501?

Thanks!



Wow Sorry missed the need to reply

The Cheyenne and 501 are very different aircraft because of the speed difference
(everything happens faster quickly) and the single engine performance

SE in a jet is like nothing really, Not the case in the Cheyenne

But I honestly like flying them both

Jet burns twice as much fuel and goes 100 knots faster
Really no comparison in my opinion Jet Wins hands down in all aspects
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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2021, 12:21 
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Joined: 11/06/20
Posts: 1747
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Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
Username Protected wrote:
That looks great, Mike! I don't even want to think about how much it cost... :sad:

I see the backup attitude indicator. Air-driven co-pilots AI is gone. Is there a third independent attitude source?

I am not Mike, but I have a similar setup in my 501SP (G600 PFD/MFDs instead of the TXis). Each G600 has its own AHRS, plus I have an L3 backup attitude indicator. So yes, 3 independent attitude sources.

I plan to stick w/ the G600s for now. Once the Garmin AP is STCd, I will probably move to the TXi PFD/MFD.

For your headset question, I use a Bose Proflight Series 2.


Last edited on 06 Jul 2021, 12:32, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2021, 12:24 
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Joined: 11/06/20
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Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
Username Protected wrote:
I thought the "SIC Required" was the consolation prize?

Don't think so. I'm very skeptical of any examples of people implying someone took a check ride for one rating and was issued another..

Except that it has happened to 2 people right here in this thread. Israel and Kevan. They passed the checkride SP in an SP aircraft yet were given SIC required. IIRC, one of them was told that it was due to "liability." I believe it is an abuse of power by the DPE.

I am going to fly w/ my mentor for a few weeks before going for my type but eventually I will be another canary in this coal mine.

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2021, 12:53 
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Username Protected wrote:
I am going to fly w/ my mentor for a few weeks before going for my type but eventually I will be another canary in this coal mine.

Chris, congrats on the purchase! We want pictures!

Personally I don't think it's a bad idea to do as Mike C suggests and get the type in the sim first. Yes (in my case), I would have to do the 25 hours SOE, but as I haven't flown in a while it actually sounds like a good investment, especially to do high-altitude and weather flying with the radar.

Didn't think we'd make it back to the US this summer, but I just booked tickets to Seattle and have made plans to do the MEL. Flight school is doubtful I will be able to finish the rating in a month as I will need to review the basics, but I don't see why it can't be done. Then maybe type rating next summer! I'm psyched! :woot:

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2021, 14:40 
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Joined: 11/06/20
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Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
Thanks Ian! Here are a couple from the weekend:

Everyone full of Enrique's:
Attachment:
image9-small.jpeg


My kids checking out the switch from 100LL to Jet-A:
Attachment:
image5-small.jpeg


I am planning to do my initial in-plane. My goal is to learn to fly first and foremost. I will have my mentor pilot and will just live our lives w/ the extra person. Then probably over the winter I will do a sim recurrent and practice all of those emergencies that can't be done in the airplane.


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2021, 14:45 
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Joined: 01/17/21
Posts: 92
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Aircraft: C550
Username Protected wrote:
Thanks Ian! Here are a couple from the weekend:

Everyone full of Enrique's:
Attachment:
image9-small.jpeg


My kids checking out the switch from 100LL to Jet-A:
Attachment:
image5-small.jpeg


I am planning to do my initial in-plane. My goal is to learn to fly first and foremost. I will have my mentor pilot and will just live our lives w/ the extra person. Then probably over the winter I will do a sim recurrent and practice all of those emergencies that can't be done in the airplane.


Almost purchased that plane. Beautiful aircraft .


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2021, 15:46 
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Beautiful, Chris! Classic N-number! How many seats?

As you say, I accept that I'll have another person in the plane for a while, so if the family comes along I'll need 8 seats total. A lot of 501's only have 7.

Here's another brain twister...let's say I get the type in a sim (no SIC restriction but of course the 25 hour restriction). Would I be able to do the 25 hours SOE in any 500 series plane (as long as I sit in the left seat), or does it have to be a 501/551? I'm thinking the latter as non 501/551's require a fully qualified PIC and SIC and I wouldn't be fully qualified at that point. But what if the supervising pilot has a SPE? Would that make it ok?

Basically I'm thinking of leasing a 550 for SOE so I can take my family with us, then going to a 501 after I finish the SOE.

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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 06 Jul 2021, 16:05 
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Joined: 11/06/20
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Location: Tulsa, OK - KRVS
Aircraft: C501SP
Username Protected wrote:
Beautiful, Chris! Classic N-number! How many seats?

As you say, I accept that I'll have another person in the plane for a while, so if the family comes along I'll need 8 seats total. A lot of 501's only have 7.

Here's another brain twister...let's say I get the type in a sim (no SIC restriction but of course the 25 hour restriction). Would I be able to do the 25 hours SOE in any 500 series plane (as long as I sit in the left seat), or does it have to be a 501/551? I'm thinking the latter as non 501/551's require a fully qualified PIC and SIC and I wouldn't be fully qualified at that point. But what if the supervising pilot has a SPE? Would that make it ok?

Basically I'm thinking of leasing a 550 for SOE so I can take my family with us, then going to a 501 after I finish the SOE.

Hi Ian,

This one has the aftermarket Sierra side and rear divans for a total of 9 belted seats. 2 in side divan, 2 aft facing chairs, and rear divan has 3 seatbelts. The downside is the potty is now in the middle of the cabin. This is looking in through the door:
Attachment:
IMG_20210619_1335383.jpg

Also, you aren't going to get 3 adults on the rear divan but my parents and (7-year-old) daughter sat back there and were comfortable. One side benefit of this config is that the rear divan is further aft than stock so there is a lot more legroom in the club area while still having space for some baggage behind the rear divan.

Another option is James Crossno's plane here on BT as it has another aft facing seat in place of the refreshment center for a total of 8 seats and retains the stock aft lav. A few others I looked at made the aft lav belted for a total of 8 seats. I supposed if you have an anti-social person (or a teenager) they would be fine to sit back there by themselves....

The empty weight is 7,278 which gives max fuel payload of 1,566. Or with 3,550 fuel, 1,822 max payload (due to hitting 9,100 max ZFW). This has the 12,650 ramp and 12,500 MGTOW STC.

As for your SOE question, the point is to make sure you have some real world experience before they turn you loose. Regardless of the regs, I would do it in the same model that you plan to fly as that will make the experience actually useful vs checking a box for the FAA. You're going to need a mentor pilot anyway - I think the hours will be knocked out as part of mentoring.


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 07 Jul 2021, 16:45 
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Joined: 09/27/13
Posts: 42
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Location: Fairview, TX
Aircraft: Citation 501
Username Protected wrote:
...Personally I don't think it's a bad idea to do as Mike C suggests and get the type in the sim first....


FWIW - I just purchased a 501SP and not a single carrier would "allow" me to do sim school. They all required that I do my initial training in aircraft. At the time, I was 2000TT, 500ME, with a handful of turbine hours.

I am reading a lot of back and forth in this thread about the benefits of the simulator. The main issue I see with sim training in the 501SP specifically is that no two of these airplanes are the same.

For example, I wouldn't want to do my initial in a 501SP with a 6 pack when the airplane in my hangar has dual G600's and GTN750's. There are a handful of other optional features that these airplanes may or may not have (anti skid, TR's, etc.), and I would hate to start building muscle memory in a non-identical cockpit so early in my transition to jets.


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 501sp
PostPosted: 11 Jul 2021, 02:25 
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Joined: 04/24/18
Posts: 736
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Location: NYC
Aircraft: ISP Eagle II SR22 g2
I normally cruise at 430 w/b and 410 e/b but on a shorter leg last week I was at 370.
11.2k lbs. 382kts TAS on 960pph. Not terrible.


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