BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Apr 2016, 12:18

Wow!

I live on a lake and this is the first time an airplane has ever landed on my list of things I don't want, don't need, wouldn't have on the place.

Top of the list to boot.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Apr 2016, 17:43

Username Protected wrote:

He believes that the broken tort climate in the U.S. won't be reformed at the legislative level and that companies that hope to survive will need restrictive sales contracts just like Icon is proposing

Therein lies the crux of the issue. We need another General Aviation Revitalization Act. If the NRA can make gun manufacturers immune why can't we push the same for airplanes?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Apr 2016, 18:54

Username Protected wrote:

On the AV Web newsletter today, under the "Insider" section they talk about the "Icon Blowback" 1/2 way down.

They state that a different CEO of a major manufacturer states that the Icon Contract is the best thing ever to happen for manufacturers and is the wave of the future.

I think GA manufacturers have been waiting for the scape goat to introduce such agreements for a long time.

Look at it this way - if icon was able to get 40 orders finalized within first 2 weeks (according to AOPA's interview with them) despite that agreement, you can draw a conclusion that it truly is not a big deal. If they only could keep that peace it would surpass number of orders for all other single piston GA airplane combined (about 50-60/month).

And even if they fail you can expect getting agreements to show up that will be 'less restrictive' to Icon's and will be marketed as such.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Apr 2016, 22:13

Username Protected wrote:

He believes that the broken tort climate in the U.S. won't be reformed at the legislative level and that companies that hope to survive will need restrictive sales contracts just like Icon is proposing

Therein lies the crux of the issue. We need another General Aviation Revitalization Act. If the NRA can make gun manufacturers immune why can't we push the same for airplanes?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Apr 2016, 06:10

Username Protected wrote:

They outnumber and outlobby us, so they out-matter us. I'll bet by at least one order of magnitude, and likely multiple.

And, for what it's worth, they have a wine club. :hide:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Apr 2016, 06:44

Does it seem a bit funny that Icon is being adimate about protection and there's Dyan and an experimental aircraft company who makes autopilots getting their equipment ready for certification.

Who is running their companies? Lawyers or visionaries?

Is Icon mitigating risk with a sledge hammer?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Apr 2016, 10:53

Jason, just install floats on your Citabria.

I would never sign this Icon contract.

You will never be able to resell these Icon aircraft with all these restrictions.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Apr 2016, 11:19

Username Protected wrote:

He believes that the broken tort climate in the U.S. won't be reformed at the legislative level and that companies that hope to survive will need restrictive sales contracts just like Icon is proposing

Therein lies the crux of the issue. We need another General Aviation Revitalization Act. If the NRA can make gun manufacturers immune why can't we push the same for airplanes?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Apr 2016, 13:26

These things are going to depreciate so quickly, it's not even going to be funny. Combining the depreciation of a boat, a plane and a sketchy contract will result in a massive depreciation hit for whomever buys a new one.

Picking one up used (like the Eclipse jet) is the way to go and then just ignore their terrible contracts and provisions.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 07 Apr 2016, 17:31

$200k+ for one of these and a restrictive contract? Come on? Buy a used Sea Rey with a 914 Turbo and throw a G3X touch in it. Maybe not quite a cool, but just as good of a plane for 1/4 the money and no restrictions.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Apr 2016, 11:18

Username Protected wrote:

$200k+ for one of these and a restrictive contract? Come on? Buy a used Sea Rey with a 914 Turbo and throw a G3X touch in it. Maybe not quite a cool, but just as good of a plane for 1/4 the money and no restrictions.

Absolutely, I shared the same thought earlier in the thread. It's now possibly more attractive - I just read Rotax is developing a 135hp turbo engine, available for the masses in 2017. With the SeaRey, I'd imagine that's a 2hr swap (maybe less). With the Icon contract...?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Apr 2016, 13:06

Username Protected wrote:

On the AV Web newsletter today, under the "Insider" section they talk about the "Icon Blowback" 1/2 way down.
They state that a different CEO of a major manufacturer states that the Icon Contract is the best thing ever to happen for manufacturers and is the wave of the future.

This is only a threat if we allow it. As the customer, we have a choice to accept this contract or not. If most people reject the contract the manufacturer will not be able to sell their aircraft and will either change the agreement or go out of business. The manufacturers who's sales terms best align with their customers' requirements will win.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Apr 2016, 20:49

I saw a lot of people at the Icon booth at sun and fun today, so there seems to be a lot of interest. However, I doubt any planes will sell with that contract. Anybody smart enough to afford it, is smart enough to be able to read!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 09 Apr 2016, 08:05

Icon responds http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/IC ... 032-1.html

Quote:

Hawkins also said there was some “misinformation and misinterpretation regarding our Purchase Agreement and the motivation behind its terms.”

I'm fairly certain that's not it... Reducing liability exposure makes sense for the insustry- the problem isn't the idea, it's the execution.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 09 Apr 2016, 09:02

Quote:

They state that a different CEO of a major manufacturer states that the Icon Contract is the best thing ever to happen for manufacturers and is the wave of the future.

The baggage fees of GA!

Icon A5