Seeing that you're an expert in the biz let me help you out.
There are four approved overhaul shops in the US. The only reason to use them is if your engine still has items within the warranty, that Pratt will replace minus usage.

Those are
Dallas Airmotive
Standard Aero
Pratt themselve

and my personal favorite.........COVINGTON!!!!!

all approved. They're not 'buying' there way into the repair business, they've been doing this for a fair bit of time. They're just less expensive.

They got the designation. They had it when I did my HSI, which was 3 years ago.


Frankly, their reputation as billers scares me far more than their reputation as the greatest engine shops.



Don't know any of these guys. Ken Casey, Sean Sanders and a few others sell a shoot ton of PC12's.
Who would wholesale their PC12????



Yes you are and a Covington overhaul is most probably better than any of your aforementioned shops IMHO. If you are leaving Covington outta the mix for maintenance of a Pratt Engine you're doing your clients a disservice.

Go learn about em. Aside from the airplane, it's the most expensive part.

I don't know many airplanes, but I sure as %#$@ know about the PC12........knowing how things work exactly and where to get em fixed is important.

Starter Gen is a good example. Overhauled unit from Pilatus, 5k, new they're around 12k, I get them overhauled for 2.8k-4k and yes also from an approved shop.

The engine will be the least of your problems at resale Pennman, with that bucket of bolts baking in the humid salt air by the beach the wings are probably corroded to hell too.

Just kidding. < sort of >

seriously I'm just trying to compare apples to apples. Covington sounds good and avoiding crating the engine sounds like a good idea too.

homebase is KFXE which is about 5 to 6 miles from the beach. Way different than PBI, PMP which are a lot closer.
I do a corrosion inspection and treatment every year on my airplane.
Do compressor washes a lot.
My airplane flies around in clouds, so it gets pressure washed often......

stick around, enjoy the shrimp, I'm thinking about writing a book........weather crappy today so no damn kiting or surfing.

homebase is KFXE which is about 5 to 6 miles from the beach. Way different than PBI, PMP which are a lot closer.
I do a corrosion inspection and treatment every year on my airplane.
Do compressor washes a lot.
My airplane flies around in clouds, so it gets pressure washed often......

stick around, enjoy the shrimp, I'm thinking about writing a book........weather crappy today so no damn kiting or surfing.

I will repeat and expand a little on one of Michael's comments about taking it to the center doing the work. My situation was a little different but:

Removed 1/2 engine(per instruction) to ship to Pratt shop for lighting inspection and HSI, some upgrades included. Shipped in their crate. Inspection done shipped back to us. Arrived damaged when shipped back to Service center.... think $$$

Shipping company tells you N....FU, Pratt tells you not us N...FU but helps a little. Send the complete engine now because they want it to "complete" the lighting inspection. Bolt the engine together and ship again in their container. After that review of the complete engine, with costs of HSI and inspection we asked why not certify it as OH'd. What additional costs could there be? Oh no we can't do those, needs to go to a different Pratt plant for that. What's the price?... Oh sorry they are too busy to get to you and they want to see it first, they can't use "our" expert inspection to Pratt's tolerances?... Weeks/months later after fighting directly with Ontario Pratt corporate we get a price. bs folks absolute bs

More to the story but take it to the shop if possible to preclude shipping. However that opens up a whole new can of worms. Is it still in annual when done? etc.

I'll also add a second recommendation, hire an expert to ride the engine to Pratt if necessary for the inspection if that is your choice. Let them be your eyes and ears and make sure you only repair/replace what is "needed" and are not mistreated. These engines are not mysterious nor should they break the bank. SETP's are usually first run OH's and should not require much unless fod damage.

Me I'm back flying tail draggers and a Mooney. Enjoying flying and when I miss the occasional whiff of Jet A I open the hangar door a crack and smell the RJ's exhaust as it takes off on 22 and think about the poor schlubs who are choking on each others breath in the aluminum tube cheek to jowl.

Personally P&W is screwing the SETP market for OH's. All good things come to an end and I hope their's is sooner rather than later.

PS I've tried to be as accurate above without giving out info that should remain private as I can.

homebase is KFXE which is about 5 to 6 miles from the beach. Way different than PBI, PMP which are a lot closer.
I do a corrosion inspection and treatment every year on my airplane.
Do compressor washes a lot.
My airplane flies around in clouds, so it gets pressure washed often......

stick around, enjoy the shrimp, I'm thinking about writing a book........weather crappy today so no damn kiting or surfing.

Same here. We're maybe 4 years out (if flying picks back up a bit). This is great news.

You do know a lot about PC-12's, and you are a fan of Covington, but I will 100% guarantee you that as of today the experienced PT6 powered turboprop buyer still looks at Covington as less than the other shops. I'm not saying their work is lower quality, I am saying it's a resale issue on later model aircraft. They are making great strides, and they may have had a restricted DOF approval 3 years ago but they weren't (to my knowledge) a DOF shop back then.

So, I am NOT doing my clients a disservice. I am giving them the complete picture so that they can make a good decision having ALL of the information.

I am also not saying I like Pratt or their pricing. I do not like the lack of competition... and ironically PT6's aren't bad, we deal with engines that ONLY Pratt can overhaul. That gets painful! I am saying there are resale factors here that need to be considered prior to making a decision about which shop does the work.

To say that one shop's overhauls are better than another's is just silly. All of the DOF shops use the same Pratt supplied components and should be overhauling or inspecting the engine to the same standard. Of course, like anything else, stuff happens and mistakes get made, but none of these shops are doing crappy work. Even though they've been around a long time, when it comes to name brand Pratt overhauls, Covington is the new kid on the block and it will take awhile for them to build the reputation that a Dallas Airmotive or Standard Aero has. Let's give them a few years and see how the market responds. It is the market, it's not Chip's opinion. That's why I gave you a list of dealers who actually buy and resell PT6 powered aircraft, some who have been in business for over 40 years. They'd all love to buy a PC-12 wholesale, but that almost never happens.

When it comes to making these decisions, it's also important to remember that there are factors other than cost involved. You're uber focused on cost, that's great. Some of our clients are, most are not, they just don't want to get screwed.

As Chuck said, ENGINE RULE #1 - hire someone to manage the engine through the event. They will save you way more than they charge you!

Mike,

Like you, I am an owner/operator of a couple of pt6s. Really appreciate your data point and telling us about Covington. Will definitely check them out when my hsi comes up.

Chip, how much “fat” would you consider there to be in the name-brand turbine engine business?

Making great strides. Are you getting a kickback too?
Epps does and so do most of the maintenance facilities. If you are advising a client to have a maintenance facility handle the HSI or overhaul, you're making a mistake. Plain and simple. That method adds so many more gotchas to the equation it's not even comparable.

Nope, they were a DOF shop back then. I wanted to make sure that Pratt honored any warranty components.

I will state that Covington does a better job than the shops you state. Just that simple. I did my homework. I spoke to at least 6 folks that did overhauls, HSI, mostly in the AG space. Craig C enlightened me as to what exactly a hot section and what is entailed. Not a lot of moving parts here, quite simple actually, all things considered. Just need the proper tooling and well taught mechanics. I even spoke with Paul Jones at length. He agreed that people without my methods and thought process are exactly why he has a job. He oversees what those fine facilities are doing and why. He's basically your calling 'bullshit' meter on the ground when they start taking things apart.

You telling me that the quality of the folks in Dallas Airmotive are better than Convington?
Simply not true. Are they charging more?
You betcha!!!!

Here's what I would like everyone on the boards to know.

Who owns Standard and Dallas?
Who owns Covington?

The ownership and leadership is critical in ANY business. I know, I used to run em, and I've sold them to people who do run them.

Chip, I like you man, but don't tell me that a Standard and Dallas are holding themselves to the same standard as Covington. Ain't possible mate, and it ain't even close.

I did not need a Paul Jones on the ground when I went to Covington in Tunica Mississippi.

You can see I feel strongly about this. As a guy selling into the owner flown market it behooves you to do the same.

I will state this clearly, if you send someone to Dallas through a maintenance facility, you are doing them a serious disservice.

What you're describing is an opportunity to take advantage of other brokers' misguided prejudice to pick up an equally good airplane for a discount. I presume that's what you're telling your clients?So if your client is planning to keep the plane for a few years, you're saying by then the prejudice may well have disappeared and they may get full price reselling the plane they bought at a discount. I'll bet your clients are happy to hear that.

OK, you want us to know, so tell us then. Who owns Standard, Dallas, and Covington?

RE: Covington

Penman recommend Covington to me but also got several other recommendations from the POPA forums to use Covington.

Chris Finnoff, former CEO of Pilatus Business Aircraft (the North American division of Pilatus) recommends Covington. Chris owns several STCs for PC-12s including the -67P engine upgrade for the legacy aircraft.

We are 1200 hours out of our HSI with no issues. Will likely take it back to Covington for the overhaul.