Proparts does not create predictability.

If he needs a lot of parts, he will end up paying for them at some point. That will either be a lump sum when he sells the plane with a negative Proparts balance, or a much higher Proparts hourly fee on renewal. Eventually, all parts cost gets charged to the customer.

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Did I read that right, an FJ44 costs $140/hour for its program and a CFM56 costs $84/hour for its program?

How can that be?

CFM56 typical price is $10M/each, FJ44 is about $1M.

Mike C.

Good advise but let's not limit it to Williams....

I know of an operator who told me a couple of years ago they do below the 150 and negotiated a deal with Williams. This is not the deal Mike references with the 300 paid up. I'm going to follow them up about this if it is still the case.

Andrew

Sure am happy I can't afford a jet.

Really?

I would be quite happy to afford a jet. The issue is owning one.

Mike C.

A CFM 56 can and does go 30K hours plus on wing, on condition with only life limited parts as the brick wall. On our aircraft it is rated at 27,300 lbs thrust per. Lots more of them in service vs FJ44 so parts are more plentiful, etc. I've got some time since they are 16 years old and less than 1600 hrs/1000 cyc.

Check this out - http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ ... rld-record

German airline TUIfly and CFM International have achieved a new first-run time-on-wing world record set by a CFM56-7B engine powering one of the airline’s Boeing 737-800s originally delivered in 1999. The engine logged more than 50,000 hours without a shop visit. “This record is a remarkable achievement,” said Friedrich Keppler, TUIfly managing director. “To put this in perspective it is equivalent to driving your car for 16 years with nothing more than oil changes and tune ups; or flying 20 million miles with no engine removals.”

What makes the small jet engines last so much less?

Worse materials, worse design, are are their lifetimes artificially low to generate service revenue?

Seems like a FADEC engine could trend monitor and suggest when an engine needs work based on condition and not have that set at certain hours. Not all hours are the same, so they have to set hours conservatively for the worst operator and the rest of us overpay.

Mike C.

Mike - you may want to take notes from some of these dishonest, capitalist aviation companies that charge what customers are WILLING to pay versus a cost plus something reasonable number. Pricing power is a beautiful thing and why shouldn't anyone out there leverage it? If I was Williams, I wouldn't let anyone run my engines off program, ever. Zero benefit to them to doing so.

Perhaps if you ran your company the way they did, you could be flying a G650

Then again, if all of us spending time commenting on BT threads like this were actually working instead of commenting, we all (present company included) might be able to afford bigger, faster better

Don't they use PT6 cores on oil rigs and run them for 60k+ hours? I am sure like any other rotating, lubricated part, frequency of use helps with durability.

What makes the small jet engines last so much less?

Worse materials, worse design, are are their lifetimes artificially low to generate service revenue?

Seems like a FADEC engine could trend monitor and suggest when an engine needs work based on condition and not have that set at certain hours. Not all hours are the same, so they have to set hours conservatively for the worst operator and the rest of us overpay.

Mike C.

What makes the small jet engines last so much less?
Mike C.

Ok so back to pro parts discussion. I see the cost leveling value as being significant. A sale is a much easier event to deal with a know deficit than a phase inspection. If you have to make up a deficit, what happens if you have a credit balance?

I'm curious Mike, if you acquired a S-II/FJ-44 that was all paid up on plan, what do you figure your cost per hour and annual cost of operations would be if you went along with it all, paid the hourly contracts and so on?

What would your risk exposure and depreciation over say, 3 years of operation be?

If you did the same with a S-II with the original engines, how do the same numbers bake out?

What's the fuel difference and risk exposure?

I'm assuming same costs on things like airframe mx, avionics, can ignore those. What's the delta really?