Just about everybody can service a Citation or King Air.

My local shop maintains about a dozen Citations. I don't think I have ever seen a King Air in the shop, but I am sure they could work on it. Around here, Citations seem more popular than King Airs by quite a bit, which also means service and pilots are more plentiful.

Textron maintains a fleet of MSU (mobile service units) which work on both Citation and King Airs. Lots of other shops have similar AOG services.

My one AOG event, hydraulic leak, was discovered late Monday and I flew away noon Wednesday. Kind of painful on the price for emergency AOG work, but no problem in finding people to fix it.

Mike C.

So why does the KA 300/350 outsell the Citation V in the charter market by such a wide margin?

The answer is comfort. You don’t care - you’re up front and the plane is a tool. But for people who actually pay for charter seats, they’ve proven over and over again that they’ll pay much more for comfort than speed.

And if I’m a charter operator looking to sell seats, I’ll buy the plane my customers want to sit in. That’s the KA over the V, every time.

Sorry Chip, but I’ll call BS on this. Lotta CE500 and KA pilots out there, but availability gets harder when you start looking at the 300/350.

Day rate for a Citation and King Air pilot is similar - Citation a couple of hundred $ more but wont move the needle much.

“Much” harder just isn’t true.

Robert

If you want the highest "stature" exiting the airplane, it is way up there, taller than a King Air.


Did you get that from ChatGPT?

Merlins can be operated single pilot.

Mike C.

Apples to apples are they really? The legacy safety record has been influenced mainly by 2 pro pilot flown corporate missions from airports with good infrastructure to airports with good infrastructure. But there is a new group of owner pilots growing up, that are flying older legacy jets, single pilot, and increasingly trying to get small GA utility out of their aircraft (i.e piston and turbo-prop missions). And I don’t believe that we have data to say that apples to apples when you start flying jets like TP’s and pistons that the record really is safer. How many days are we off someone trying to get a 550 into a runway at night with a runway landing distance of only 2637 feet, if done to ATP standards? It is the pilot flying, the mission accepted, and the operating standards that are driving the safety records. Put an ambitious single owner pilot into a jet and fly it like a piston or a TP, and you will get a similar safety record. The last few years have not been kind to Biz Jets. How many HJ excursions? Have they picked up the pieces of the Gulfstream off the runway at Cabo yet? Fly a TP to Jet standards you get a jet type safety records. Fly a Jet to TP standards you get a TP type safety record. But you can do more challenging missions in a TP safely. But that is also a slippery slope.

Ooooo I’m going to steal that quote! (And no, I have never driven a school bus with tires in any condition.)

I have done that on a few and have yet to see one roll back at static. There is a video of one returning like a mouse trap though. I think the vibration from the takeoff roll makes a roll back much more likely. TC advocates momentarily removing one’s hand before going for the gear handle and of course accelerating a little bit more before retracting the gear.

No one really knows what actual VMC is with the auto feather disarmed but I suspect it is dangerously high in a 350.

I recommend altering the before engine start checklist to “function test and adjust both friction locks”. I would not be surprised if there are some flying with sheared friction lock rivets.

Also insist on a close visual inspection at next scheduled service (some disassembly required). People in the know are probably fiddling with them more and tightening them more than normal. That could actually cause the aluminum rivets to fatigue.

"I'm not a pilot but I play one on BT"

Mike C.

Based on that video, the PL would walk back as soon as you let it go. This leads to the question of why this happens right at rotation and not before or after.

A possible theory is that the pilot holds the power levers during the takeoff roll in preparation to abort, then, at rotation or some point where they commit to flying, they move their hands to the yoke, and then the left PL walks back from spring force and you end up with an uncontrollable plane in the most critical phase of flight. The results have been catastrophic, to say the least.

Serious design flaw that doesn't seem to afflict other types. Basically people are dead because Beech used too strong a spring that will overcome the natural friction of the control cable.

Mike C.

Based on that video, the PL would walk back as soon as you let it go. This leads to the question of why this happens right at rotation and not before or after.

A possible theory is that the pilot holds the power levers during the takeoff roll in preparation to abort, then, at rotation or some point where they commit to flying, they move their hands to the yoke, and then the left PL walks back from spring force and you end up with an uncontrollable plane in the most critical phase of flight. The results have been catastrophic, to say the least.

Serious design flaw that doesn't seem to afflict other types. Basically people are dead because Beech used too strong a spring that will overcome the natural friction of the control cable.

Mike C.

I think this distinction is more predicated on the economic shift over the past decade or so enabling lower-cost jet accessibility.

The cost of older Citations has dropped to be competitive with newer turboprops (or better!), so some folks opt for the Citation and accept hourly cost differences. Additionally, the overhaul and operating cost delta seems to be shrinking (see the PT6 thread), which would relatively favor those interested in being higher and (a bit) faster.

I'd argue that for several generations and up until the early 2010s, a King-Air was the cost-conscious business leader's airplane. The math no longer supports that consensus, so mission situation variability has become a higher decision metric.

"I'm not a pilot but I play one on BT"

Mike C.

In many of these cases, maybe most of them, the gear was down at impact. It just happens so fast that there wasn't the normal time to get to the gear.

It really does happen right at rotation, before gear up.

This is true of the Addison crash, for example. The gear is still fully out at impact.

"Examination of the wreckage found both main landing gear in a position consistent with being extended"


Mike C.

Reach for gear at positive rate and it snaps back. No autofeather because it gets disable with a micro switch when power level is back.

"I'm not a pilot but I play one on BT"

Mike C.