BeechTalk - BT - Considering a Turbo Commander for my next plane

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Mar 2017, 15:23

Username Protected wrote:

Westwinds are insanely under-appreciated by the market. Mainly because most think it's ugly, is my guess. Pilots are a shallow bunch. Where else can you get a jet with no calendar items, that goes 2500nm, RSVM and has TFE731's that you can literally buy parts for at Walmart? I don't think there's a single jet that delivers that amount of bang for the buck. If there is, I'd be curious to hear about it! :thumbup:

Ain't it the TRUTH! What a massively capable airplane!

True story... years ago the company I worked for sold Stevie Wonder's Westwind (he didn't own it, but was the primary charter customer) and as you might imagine... it was pretty ragged. Needed paint and interior... hard not to laugh.

The kicker... 4 brand new big ol Airshow flat screen monitors!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Mar 2017, 15:24

Dang we have really jacked up James' thread. Sorry. Anyone want to talk about James' new TC?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Mar 2017, 15:41

Username Protected wrote:

Quote:

If being a Turbo Commander loving, aviation history loving American makes me a racist... then I guess I'm guilty.

This is nuts! Discussing where an airplane is manufactured and assembled is "racist"? Then a sharp turn to "David Duke"? WTF?

Some people are just looking for a reason to be offended. :hammer:

Did Olive Ann name an airplane after David Duke?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Mar 2017, 18:09

Username Protected wrote:

Travis,

Thanks for the PIREP on the Long Body. Those are the speeds I anticipated. I like the idea of the MU2 and how well it handles rough air. The turbo commander looks better and is A LOT BIGGER which will impact the hanger cost. Tough choice. I like the idea of staying with what I know but I have never flown in a TC so that may need to happen next.

C

A few phone calls would give you hard numbers for hangering a Commander vs. a Marquise.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Mar 2017, 22:01

Who thinks the Westwood is ugly? I've been lusting after one forever, that thing is dead sexy. I never looked harder because I figured it'd eat my lunch- maybe I should look harder.

- what's the opex?
- can you RVSM?
- can it be ADSB compliant for 2020?

I'm trying to get my (future) wife to get a private ticket so I meet my second pilot requirement...

Ugly? What's sexier than performance?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Mar 2017, 22:08

Username Protected wrote:

Who thinks the Westwood is ugly? I've been lusting after one forever, that thing is dead sexy. I never looked harder because I figured it'd eat my lunch- maybe I should look harder.

- what's the opex?
- can you RVSM?
- can it be ADSB compliant for 2020?

I'm trying to get my (future) wife to get a private ticket so I meet my second pilot requirement...

Ugly? What's sexier than performance?

Rather than a Westwind, how about an Astra or Astra SPX? Low operating expenses. Coast to coast range. Newer than a Westwind. Gulfstream support (kind of). Faster than a Westwind. Still inexpensive to buy.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Mar 2017, 22:13

Username Protected wrote:

Who thinks the Westwood is ugly? I've been lusting after one forever, that thing is dead sexy. I never looked harder because I figured it'd eat my lunch- maybe I should look harder.

- what's the opex?
- can you RVSM?
- can it be ADSB compliant for 2020?

I'm trying to get my (future) wife to get a private ticket so I meet my second pilot requirement...

Ugly? What's sexier than performance?

Craig,

It's probably the Aerostar lover in you coming through since they're first cousins. I never got to go to school on ours but the thing never broke and was rumored to be super simple and easy to work on when needed. You already like TPE331s and I've flown plenty of TFE731s and can tell you they are just as bullet proof. I think the 1124 has the -2s which are at the lower end of the 731 series power spectrum. 3500 lbs per side I think, maybe 3700. I have no idea about RVSM or ADSB but it was way before integrated avionics so I'm sure it would be fairly simple. (Well RVSM was never simple) So relatively simple.

If you can manage the SIC angle I think it's a real bargain.

Oh, but one thing: It is not super speedy as jets go. I think they planned ours at 420 KTAS. Go for it.

Stew

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Mar 2017, 22:32

Username Protected wrote:

Who thinks the Westwood is ugly? I've been lusting after one forever, that thing is dead sexy.
What's sexier than performance?

While no one can ever doubt the performance of the Westwind, or the gentleman pictured here, they both kind of creep me out in a hairy chest, gold medallion kind of way. Stunning performance isn't everything.

Maybe I was just too young to get the 70s vibe. :shrug:

Username Protected · **Posted:** 08 Mar 2017, 22:52

Username Protected wrote:

Who thinks the Westwood is ugly? I've been lusting after one forever, that thing is dead sexy. I never looked harder because I figured it'd eat my lunch- maybe I should look harder.

- what's the opex?
- can you RVSM?
- can it be ADSB compliant for 2020?

I'm trying to get my (future) wife to get a private ticket so I meet my second pilot requirement...

Ugly? What's sexier than performance?

I like the Westwinds, although I have never flown one. I have flown the Astra SPX. Great airplane. Fast, long range and efficient.

Conklin DeDecker Variable costs:

IAI Astra SP $2,038
IAI Westwind 2 $2,582

Many should already be RVSM

ADS-B should be doable, probably easier in the Westwind with the steam panel.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 09 Mar 2017, 00:47

All depends on your budget, the Astra is inexpensive... say Champagne budget... the Westwind... beer. Cheap beer!

Username Protected · **Posted:** 09 Mar 2017, 02:22

RVSM STC exists for Astra and Westwind. Astra is item 15 and Westwind is item 18.

http://www.cmdflightsolutions.com/inclu ... CH-web.pdf

Username Protected · **Posted:** 09 Mar 2017, 05:07

One of my Merlin instructors was the guru of Westwind in aircraft training, he was killed in one at Huntsville. He pushed me to dropmthebMerlin and buy a Westwind back then. Had I done so I would have really lost a bundle as those jets were going for a million or a bit less then and now you see them going for 250k.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 09 Mar 2017, 12:06

Good thread here about the Astra and little bit about the Westwind...

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=107758&hilit=astra

Username Protected · **Posted:** 09 Mar 2017, 14:00

Username Protected wrote:

One of my Merlin instructors was the guru of Westwind in aircraft training, he was killed in one at Huntsville. He pushed me to dropmthebMerlin and buy a Westwind back then. Had I done so I would have really lost a bundle as those jets were going for a million or a bit less then and now you see them going for 250k.

Yes! Great example of an airplane about to fall... but I don't think anyone saw that one coming. I know a dealer who had one in inventory, I would guess he lost $1 Million dollars when he sold that airplane. Painful.

Premier I / IA's fell... then they went back up.

The used aircraft market is hard to predict... if I had a crystal ball...

Username Protected · **Posted:** 10 Mar 2017, 01:25

Username Protected wrote:

But... the point is a lot of these legacy aircraft are just not popular anymore. It's not something to be defensive about... it's just reality.

It's your reality. It seems to be generated by the need to scare people away from planes you don't sell.

I have a long list of "if you ever sell, call me first" people for my plane.

Maybe popular is "like it so much I'm not selling".

That list you provided looks like an excellent opportunity for owner operators to pick up some very nice airplanes. The advantage to these legacy airplanes is that you can upgrade them for much less than the newer "integrated" electronic cockpits of the newer planes.

Mike C.