Basis for that?

If a person does the training and checkride all single pilot, I see no basis for the DPE arbitrarily issuing "SIC required" on their license.

A pilot trained only in single pilot ops is actually not that safe in a crew situation. Being an effective crew requires specific training for that.


I was really disappointed with the death of the CE-500S type rating initiative. Apparently, it died at Textron's door step. I am pushing for CJP to open up about this effort and why it failed, and see if we can work around the barriers.


That makes so much more sense.

Mike C.

And I should have added that I totally understand that it might be a “cover your butt” maneuver on the part of the DPE. I may have to read the FAA order to figure out why they legally have that latitude.

Cheers,
Martín (deputy minister of geared piston Lycomings, for now)

When I say "legal" - I mean that the DPE will always be able to manufacture a reason why you didn't do the checkride as the sole manipulator of the controls/pilot if that's their intended outcome.

Martin - yes, I guess it does then technically count as a failed SP checkride but only if the DPE hasn't advised you prior. At least it wouldn't go on your record as such.

Mike - agreed - it seems perverse that you can train in SP or 2P and then go and fly the other with no need to prove that you're capable of flying in the "other" environment. DPEs are self-governing(?) the 2P to SP move and I suppose if you go from SP to 2P then maybe it's the insurers who will do the due diligence?

Yeah, I agree…they can always find some nit to pick, so I guess it’s better that they tell you in advance that he won’t grant you SP authorization.

Current 501SP driver here. I will second Mike's suggestions. I did my initial as crew (in-airplane), flew with a mentor for a year, then did my 61.58 single pilot and had the SOC required removed.

Have you read the ACS? There is a TON of latitude to the DPE in there. How about this one:

How far off centerline can you go? ACS doesn't say. No one can stay perfectly on centerline so literally any wobble could be grounds for failure.

What about appropriate use of checklists? There is also latitude there. Same for emergency procedures - the V1 cut actually lists +/-5 degrees but the other skills just say "maintain directional control."

The bottom line is that if a DPE wants to fail you they can find a reason - even if you're Chuck Yeager. Especially on a person's first type ride which is done to ATP standards. The inverse is also true. Generally, DPEs are wanting you to pass and you have to make a cut and dry mistake and/or give them a bad feeling before they fail you.

They should definitely be upfront about this, but they also have to be careful. A DPE can't tell a person that they'll fail a checkride before they've taken it. So you have to read between the lines a bit.

In my case it didn't cost me any extra as I waited until my annual 61.58 to remove the SP but not everyone will want to deal with a mentor for a full year.

You either pass the checkride operating as a single pilot or you don't. If you do it single pilot, then no SIC is required. If you did it crew, then you get SIC required.

I don't see any latitude for a DPE to pass you but then put SIC required if you did it single pilot.

Mike C.

Thanks. That was at the heart of my question: If the airplane is a single-pilot airplane, and I meet the requirements, and I perform to the standard, why does the DPE have the discretion to issue me a SIC required type rating? That is essentially saying I failed the SP checkride. My background and experiences shouldn’t come into it as long as I meet the requirement as laid out in the regs.

I’m not disputing that this happens, and I understand that it’s not hard to remove the SIC restriction. I’m just trying to understand what gives the DPE that latitude, when in the case of other checkrides, it’s more cut-and-dried.

You either pass the checkride operating as a single pilot or you don't. If you do it single pilot, then no SIC is required. If you did it crew, then you get SIC required.

I don't see any latitude for a DPE to pass you but then put SIC required if you did it single pilot.