26 Dec 2024, 08:53 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Slowest 56 C172 with AVCON Conversion HELP Posted: 11 Jul 2020, 18:43 |
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Joined: 12/25/10 Posts: 5985 Post Likes: +3677 Company: Occasionally Pleasant Location: Bourland Field 50F Cresson, TX
Aircraft: C-172
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Username Protected wrote: Just finished up a several year restoration on a 1956 C172 with an AVCON Conversion. Everything is new engine, prop, power flow exhaust, Sportsman STOL kit etc. Flew it for the first time the other day and the plane leaped off the ground handled great but the top end speed is only indicating 110 MPH. Had the Avionics shop recheck the pitot system and confirmed all is good. The rigging on the airframe is straight. One thought that was brought to my attention was the engine incidence. Does anyone know what the engine incidence is on an AVCON conversion or have any other suggestions on what to look for. Also what kind of indicated airspeeds are you getting from the conversion.
Flew again tonight. At 2000 feet the winds were almost nothing. Flew four different directions with the GPS showing ground speeds almost the same speed all four directions. Tanks at half full. Two 200 lbs Guys in the front seats. Noticed the elevator just slightly down, elevator trimmed pretty close to middle. I would of thought with two people in the front seats the plane would of required some up elevator to stay level not down elevator. Plane seems to be making full power on takeoff. The engine analyzer shows 18.5 gph full throttle and 2650 RPM on the prop. The engine is sitting straight forward 90 degrees of the firewall and now has .3 degrees of down tilt. We added some washers under the engine mount to tip it down and back to the left. The neighbor in the hanger next to me has a 58 with the stock Continental so I measured his engine incidence. It didn't change anything maybe 1 MPH Did this situation ever get resolved? Funny no one mentioned the prop. standard pitch will only improve climb. Senseenich sells a prop that improves both. The design was copied from the prop shop in Hemet STC.
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Post subject: Re: Slowest 56 C172 with AVCON Conversion HELP Posted: 12 Jul 2020, 12:55 |
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Joined: 01/29/09 Posts: 4747 Post Likes: +2449 Company: retired corporate mostly Location: Chico,California KCIC/CL56
Aircraft: 1956 Champion 7EC
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Quote: Funny no one mentioned the prop. Seriously....?
_________________ Jeff
soloed in a land of Superhomers/1959 Cessna 150, retired with Proline 21/ CJ4.
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Post subject: Re: Slowest 56 C172 with AVCON Conversion HELP Posted: 20 Nov 2024, 14:47 |
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Joined: 09/20/22 Posts: 3
Aircraft: Travel Air
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I have a 1975 172M with the Bush/Avcon 180hp conversion. I'm seeing true airspeeds right around 130mph in cruise between 5-7,000 ft. Anyone with a 180hp 172 care to share their true airspeeds in cruise for comparison?
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Post subject: Re: Slowest 56 C172 with AVCON Conversion HELP Posted: 22 Nov 2024, 07:49 |
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Joined: 03/29/13 Posts: 939 Post Likes: +762
Aircraft: PA18, C120/180/210
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Drag goes up as the square of the speed.
To a first order, putting a bigger engine in an airframe, particularly a draggy one that is flown down low, will primarily improve climb performance only. For example, a plane that flies at 120 mph now, will require about 17% more power to fly at 130 mph, everything else being constant. The conversion in question is about a 13% increase in power, so if it once cruised at 120 mph, now if will cruise at say ~127 mph for the same % power setting. If it once cruised at 110 mph, might bump up to ~116 mph with the 160 -> 180 hp increase.
A much bigger engine in some planes (say 230 to 300 hp in an 182) increases cruise speed a little, at the expense of fuel burn of course.
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Post subject: Re: Slowest 56 C172 with AVCON Conversion HELP Posted: 22 Nov 2024, 10:10 |
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Joined: 12/25/10 Posts: 5985 Post Likes: +3677 Company: Occasionally Pleasant Location: Bourland Field 50F Cresson, TX
Aircraft: C-172
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I found out at least one engine change STC requires a specific prop.This for 172s. Installation of flap gap seals on the 172/182 aircraft Provides about 100 feet per minute climb increase. The most bang for the buck! our 172 has the Horton STOL kit. Including the gap seals.It lets you land at slower speeds.
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Post subject: Re: Slowest 56 C172 with AVCON Conversion HELP Posted: 22 Nov 2024, 10:37 |
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Joined: 09/20/22 Posts: 3
Aircraft: Travel Air
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Username Protected wrote: Drag goes up as the square of the speed.
To a first order, putting a bigger engine in an airframe, particularly a draggy one that is flown down low, will primarily improve climb performance only. For example, a plane that flies at 120 mph now, will require about 17% more power to fly at 130 mph, everything else being constant. The conversion in question is about a 13% increase in power, so if it once cruised at 120 mph, now if will cruise at say ~127 mph for the same % power setting. If it once cruised at 110 mph, might bump up to ~116 mph with the 160 -> 180 hp increase.
A much bigger engine in some planes (say 230 to 300 hp in an 182) increases cruise speed a little, at the expense of fuel burn of course. Good info, thanks. I'm aware of these concepts and the climb is definitely far better than the stock 150hp engine. I'm just curious what others with the additional power see for cruise speeds.
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Post subject: Re: Slowest 56 C172 with AVCON Conversion HELP Posted: 23 Nov 2024, 00:56 |
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Joined: 04/18/10 Posts: 320 Post Likes: +248
Aircraft: bonanza 35j
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As I stated before, 145mph/125kts at 6500ft 2300/23 with Hartzell CSP, O360a1a, powerflow exhaust, Horton cuff, gap seals, wheel pants. I’ve known thers(older models) that were not as fast. Thought it might have something to do with going from a O300 Cont to a Lyc360 as far as engine mount rigging. They needed a blister on the cowling, and more modifications. Mine is a 68 which I’ve had for 17 yrs. I agree there are a wide discrepancy as far as speed. Mine burns 9gph for a 4 hr flight(I have flint aux tanks on each wing), and 10gph for 1-2 hr flights. Power flow I would not do again, flint aux tanks a must have if going to use x country, due to increase fuel consumption.
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Post subject: Re: Slowest 56 C172 with AVCON Conversion HELP Posted: 23 Nov 2024, 01:11 |
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Joined: 09/20/22 Posts: 3
Aircraft: Travel Air
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Username Protected wrote: As I stated before, 145mph/125kts at 6500ft 2300/23 with Hartzell CSP, O360a1a, powerflow exhaust, Horton cuff, gap seals, wheel pants. I’ve known thers(older models) that were not as fast. Thought it might have something to do with going from a O300 Cont to a Lyc360 as far as engine mount rigging. They needed a blister on the cowling, and more modifications. Mine is a 68 which I’ve had for 17 yrs. I agree there are a wide discrepancy as far as speed. Mine burns 9gph for a 4 hr flight(I have flint aux tanks on each wing), and 10gph for 1-2 hr flights. Power flow I would not do again, flint aux tanks a must have if going to use x country, due to increase fuel consumption. Thanks Bill. You must have the fastest 172 on the planet that's not an XP. I use the same 2300/23" with Hartzell CSP and O360a1a. I do NOT have power flow, Horton, gap seals or wheel pants currently. On a good day I might see 133mph at 6500ft burning 8.5 gph. Sounds like I'm either leaning a bit more or my engine gauges indicate slightly different than yours and that could also account for some of the difference in speed. Where do you find the gap seals available for the 172?
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Post subject: Re: Slowest 56 C172 with AVCON Conversion HELP Posted: 23 Nov 2024, 08:46 |
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Joined: 01/10/17 Posts: 1897 Post Likes: +1291 Company: Skyhaven Airport Inc
Aircraft: various mid century
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56 172 has quite a different cowl and windshield profile than the later stepped firewall 172 airframes I think starting in 1960.
One other thing to check is the eccentric bushings in the rear spar. It may fly hands off but you can try raising both wing trailing edges equal amounts at the rear to get less angle (Decalage) between the wing incidence positive and horizontal tail negative incidence. Less drag.
But the older style windshield and firewall area may make it always slow. Other items like droop wing tips, no pants, can be an issue.
is the Tach reading correctly? Checked with hand held optical tach? Manifold pressure gauge accurate".
Pitot partially blocked?
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