BeechTalk - BT - Vince Neil of Motley Crew Lear Jet for sale

Username Protected · **Posted:** 04 Sep 2024, 22:46

Username Protected wrote:

...it's not exactly a beginners jet the average owner/pilot can easily step up to from their King Air. Even an experienced Phenom/Citation driver is going to be playing catch up for the first 500 hours.

Well said, Daniel.

The most flying fun I ever had was behind the wheel of Lear 20s and 30s. And often I found myself behind in every sense of the word.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 04 Sep 2024, 22:52

Username Protected wrote:

Well said, Daniel.

The most flying fun I ever had was behind the wheel of Lear 20s and 30s. And often I found myself behind in every sense of the word.

Thanks, Ted. The LR JET was my first swept wing jet airplane. I really did learn how not to kill myself in those things. Saw the CFR equipment through the windows of every Lear we operated, and made peace with the airmanship required to fly anything professionally.

Never worked as hard for as I did for that type rating. I could strap one on today.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 05 Sep 2024, 08:02

I cut my teeth on the 31a and have always lusted over those 20 series.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 05 Sep 2024, 08:40

Username Protected wrote:

I did a little digging and this has gotten juicy. This is a bit long, but worth the payoff, I think.

This plane was surplussed and transferred to Royal Air Museum, Inc/Mark Daniels with a bunch of others: 3 Lears, a C-12/King Air, a Gulfstream C-20D, and an X-34 orbital spaceplane. Oh, and 729 telephones.

Daniels then attempted to sell the Gulfstream to a third party (against the terms of the surplus agreement), and was busted by the feds. He plead guilty to that charge and appears to have been sentenced to probation.

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/65 ... useum-inc/

As far as I can tell, "Royal Air Museum, Inc." is bull$xxx. It was supposedly located at Tri-County Airport in Bonifay, which is a small airport with some T hangars, an airport authority office, and a skydiving operation. There is no building big enough to house any kind of a museum.

If you google "Royal Air Museum Mark Daniels," the first hit is "World Jet, Inc vs. Rockstar Ventures" in which Mark Daniels is also listed as a defendant. Those docs are behind a paywall, so I can't see any details.

And, finally, a search for "Rockstar Ventures Mark Daniels" leads quickly to Vince Neil's wikipedia page, which includes this tidbit: In December 2015, Neil, along with Rockstar Investment Group president Mark Daniels and vice president Robert Hewko, were sued by Sohrob Farudi for fraud over a $500,000 investment towards the Las Vegas Outlaws arena football team..."

So the story's pretty clear to me: Daniels set up a bogus nonprofit company to get surplus planes for free, then tried to sell them. N21VN was probably dressed up either as a demo plane, or because Neil was involved and he used it as his personal plane.

Chip, I don't think I'd ask him about it next time you see him ;-)

Attachment:

N21VN.jpg

If World Jet is involved, there has to be someone getting scammed somewhere.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 05 Sep 2024, 17:44

Username Protected wrote:

The 35's ar lovely flying machines, but not financially viable for any sort of operation in 2024, except a well-established air ambulance certificate with a robust client base.

They were bulletproof in the 70's and 80's but the wiring and ducting is now ancient, and RVSM solutions are costly if not already completed and certified. Add to that the 12,000 hour inspection that involves de-mating the wings and fuselage. Even if the inside is flawless (It usually is) the labor involved is breathtaking.

I haven’t seen a 35/36 w/o RVSM since the early 2000s. I see some wiring issues, but not much in the way of ducting issues. Mostly fuel leaks, corrosion, cracks, and component failures. Labor required is breathtaking because they were not designed with any thought toward future maintenance. The only design criteria was “make it go fast”. So, it’s pretty much a one trick pony. Thirty years ago I would have assumed all of them would be beer cans by now, but in the hangar right now is one getting everything from a 300hr through a 12 year and 12,000 hr. On the other end of the hangar is one getting a 300 hr through 2400 hour, a cable change, avionics upgrade and a double windshield change. It’s a dinosaur ICU.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 05 Sep 2024, 23:08

Username Protected wrote:

I did a little digging and this has gotten juicy. This is a bit long, but worth the payoff, I think.

This plane was surplussed and transferred to Royal Air Museum, Inc/Mark Daniels with a bunch of others: 3 Lears, a C-12/King Air, a Gulfstream C-20D, and an X-34 orbital spaceplane. Oh, and 729 telephones.

Daniels then attempted to sell the Gulfstream to a third party (against the terms of the surplus agreement), and was busted by the feds. He plead guilty to that charge and appears to have been sentenced to probation.

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/65 ... useum-inc/

As far as I can tell, "Royal Air Museum, Inc." is bull$xxx. It was supposedly located at Tri-County Airport in Bonifay, which is a small airport with some T hangars, an airport authority office, and a skydiving operation. There is no building big enough to house any kind of a museum.

If you google "Royal Air Museum Mark Daniels," the first hit is "World Jet, Inc vs. Rockstar Ventures" in which Mark Daniels is also listed as a defendant. Those docs are behind a paywall, so I can't see any details.

And, finally, a search for "Rockstar Ventures Mark Daniels" leads quickly to Vince Neil's wikipedia page, which includes this tidbit: In December 2015, Neil, along with Rockstar Investment Group president Mark Daniels and vice president Robert Hewko, were sued by Sohrob Farudi for fraud over a $500,000 investment towards the Las Vegas Outlaws arena football team..."

So the story's pretty clear to me: Daniels set up a bogus nonprofit company to get surplus planes for free, then tried to sell them. N21VN was probably dressed up either as a demo plane, or because Neil was involved and he used it as his personal plane.

Chip, I don't think I'd ask him about it next time you see him ;-)

Attachment:

N21VN.jpg

If World Jet is involved, there has to be someone getting scammed somewhere.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Sep 2024, 10:20

Username Protected wrote:

The only design criteria was “make it go fast”. So, it’s pretty much a one trick pony.

Ironically the pony left the stable back at the end of the last century when the competition started outrunning them. The early Lears were narrow, tight, and thirsty. In the turbojet models it was a race to the next fuel stop. They were a marvel and a treat to the two up front, and when everything else was spinning a prop they were a status symbol to the folks in back, but they never evolved and so they mostly went extinct. It’s too bad, they were amazing flying machines.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Sep 2024, 11:32

I fly Lear 35s & 36s for work.

Most are not RVSM, either we are at FL280 or below or we are working in Warning areas where RVSM separation requirements don’t apply.

We do missions all over the place.

This is one of ours:

https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight ... /KOAK/PHNL

This one is RVSM.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Sep 2024, 12:08

Username Protected wrote:

I fly Lear 35s & 36s for work.

Most are not RVSM, either we are at FL280 or below or we are working in Warning areas where RVSM separation requirements don’t apply.

We do missions all over the place.

This is one of ours:

https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight ... /KOAK/PHNL

This one is RVSM.

Didn't realize the 35's had the legs for that hop........???

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Sep 2024, 12:28

That’s a 36. With Avcon tips a 36 can do Cold Bay to Hawaii.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Sep 2024, 13:28

Username Protected wrote:

The only design criteria was “make it go fast”. So, it’s pretty much a one trick pony.

Ironically the pony left the stable back at the end of the last century when the competition started outrunning them. The early Lears were narrow, tight, and thirsty. In the turbojet models it was a race to the next fuel stop. They were a marvel and a treat to the two up front, and when everything else was spinning a prop they were a status symbol to the folks in back, but they never evolved and so they mostly went extinct. It’s too bad, they were amazing flying machines.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 06 Sep 2024, 16:38

Username Protected wrote:

I fly Lear 35s & 36s for work.

Most are not RVSM, either we are at FL280 or below or we are working in Warning areas where RVSM separation requirements don’t apply.

We do missions all over the place.

This is one of ours:

https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight ... /KOAK/PHNL

This one is RVSM.

An old Flight International lear still flying the same contract under a different corporate name.

I too flew N16FN long, long ago and for a brief time was a flight manager at North Island.

In that capacity I managed the contract and knew it's contents.

I was running the part of the operation that moved contractors from North Island to San Clemente island. Even though we were the low bidders I could (and occasionally did) substitute a Lear 25 for a Piper Chieftain and it was still profitable. On that short of a flight the Lear couldn't get higher than 15,000ft. It was NOT an efficient mission for that airplane.

Military contracts don't reflect real world economics
.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Sep 2024, 08:56

I saw this aircraft sit in a shop disassembled for over a year , after the auction , They had to fly it back at 14000 feet , because it was a former govt plane with the encrypted gps and the govt removed the antenna , So they flew it back unpressurized , They also had to handle the quadrant with a towel , as the heater hose broke , and made the quadrant so hot , you couldnt touch it .. And the shop , never got paid...

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Sep 2024, 08:58

8 years ago

Username Protected · **Posted:** 13 Sep 2024, 14:09

That must have been a hell of a leak. All the heat ducts are in the cabin side walls, except for the one hanging from the center windshield post. Not to mention, if you aren’t pressurized, turning off the bleed air = no heat.