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30 Jun 2025, 01:33 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Scrap or Repair ‘76 Rockwell 112TC
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2022, 12:35 
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Joined: 10/06/13
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Location: KOCF
Aircraft: Commander 114
Hypothetically: If one had a 1976 112TC that "landed" on the nosewheel, suffered a prop strike, severely damaged the front strut, and drove one of the lower mounting points of the engine mount about two inches deep into the firewall, would it be better to scrap the plane or repair it?

The hypothetical plane has always been kept in a hangar but needs paint (no gloss) and interior. Last annual 12/20. Approximately 2270 TTSN and 108 hours on the engine since a field overhaul (for what it's worth given the prop strike). Equipment includes PS Engineering PMA-8000B Audio Panel, Garmin 530W - Coupled to HSI & Century IIB AutoPilot, Garmin 430 Garmin, GTX-327 Transponder, Garmin GDL-69 XM Weather - Shown on both 530 & 430, JPI EDM900, PAI-700 Vertical Compass Card, Voice alert system ICA-2040 (Stall & Gear voice warning), 4 place intercom, and Navionix ADS-B tail beacon. I am told the HSI and auto pilot are junk.

Assume the plane is paid for. An A&P/IA ball-parked $30K-$50K to repair. What would the scrap vs. repair analysis look like? What would the plane be worth as she sits? Would the owner strip and sell the panel, and then sell the rest to the salvage yard? Which salvage yard?

For the record, I do not own a 112TC. Thanks!

David


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 Post subject: Re: Scrap or Repair ‘76 Rockwell 112TC
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2022, 20:33 
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Joined: 08/18/18
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Location: Melbourne, FL
Aircraft: BE58, C150J
If (salvage value + repair costs) > resulting aircraft market value (with damage history), it's salvage.

If (salvage value + repair costs) < resulting aircraft market value (with damage history), fix it.

If your friend intends to keep it forever, the damage history value impairment piece can be ignored.

$30K-$50K sounds optimistic to repair this scope of damage.

Your friend could offer the plane for sale "as is, where is" on the popular classified sites and see what offers materialize. If the aircraft is salvage, a buyer who takes everything away at once is worth a great deal of time and headaches saved for your friend.

In parallel, your friend needs to do a deep dive on the repair costs to determine a realistic repair cost scenario, using actual values for replacement parts available on the market now. He or she should consider the additional potential cost if the IRAN reveals significant engine damage. Also bank on some additional, unexpected findings after the mechanic digs in.

Also in parallel, he or she should shop for acceptable replacement aircraft to get calibrated on current market valuations.

Only with these three elements in hand will the picture will become clear enough for your friend to make an educated choice - otherwise we'll just be speculating. The low volume of 112TC transactions could be cause for a bit of "gut feel" to be required to make the final decision.


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 Post subject: Re: Scrap or Repair ‘76 Rockwell 112TC
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2022, 21:29 
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Joined: 03/06/15
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Company: Michael Dunlevie PC
Location: Eagle, CO
Aircraft: 1960 M35
Donate it to a 501(c)(3) such as Eagle Young Aviators. Young kids work on project airplanes under supervision of IA's to learn aircraft wrenching and get credit for flying hours to get their private certificate. EYA can, depending on location, come and haul off the project and you get a 501c3 donation receipt.

Aircraft that would be junked are saved, kids learn and gain a future in aviation. :thumbup:

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Michael


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 Post subject: Re: Scrap or Repair ‘76 Rockwell 112TC
PostPosted: 26 Aug 2022, 21:56 
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Joined: 10/07/18
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Location: Columbus, Ohio
Aircraft: Baron 58, Lear 35
I believe a prop strike inspection on the engine is going to be north of $10K. And that’s if everything checks out OK. Then the prop repair/replacement for probably another $5K. It will be halfway to the low end of the “estimate” before any labor or airframe parts are considered.


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 Post subject: Re: Scrap or Repair ‘76 Rockwell 112TC
PostPosted: 27 Aug 2022, 08:41 
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Joined: 03/23/08
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Aircraft: IAR823, LrJet, 240Z
Just one observation from working many hundreds of claims… it is always worse than initially evaluated. So assume more will be uncovered in the process.

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Tom Johnson-Az/Wy
AssuredPartners Aerospace Insurance
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 Post subject: Re: Scrap or Repair ‘76 Rockwell 112TC
PostPosted: 27 Aug 2022, 09:04 
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Joined: 03/04/14
Posts: 1973
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Location: FREDERICKSBURG TX
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Username Protected wrote:
Hypothetically: If one had a 1976 112TC that "landed" on the nosewheel, suffered a prop strike, severely damaged the front strut, and drove one of the lower mounting points of the engine mount about two inches deep into the firewall, would it be better to scrap the plane or repair it?

The hypothetical plane has always been kept in a hangar but needs paint (no gloss) and interior. Last annual 12/20. Approximately 2270 TTSN and 108 hours on the engine since a field overhaul (for what it's worth given the prop strike). Equipment includes PS Engineering PMA-8000B Audio Panel, Garmin 530W - Coupled to HSI & Century IIB AutoPilot, Garmin 430 Garmin, GTX-327 Transponder, Garmin GDL-69 XM Weather - Shown on both 530 & 430, JPI EDM900, PAI-700 Vertical Compass Card, Voice alert system ICA-2040 (Stall & Gear voice warning), 4 place intercom, and Navionix ADS-B tail beacon. I am told the HSI and auto pilot are junk.

Assume the plane is paid for. An A&P/IA ball-parked $30K-$50K to repair. What would the scrap vs. repair analysis look like? What would the plane be worth as she sits? Would the owner strip and sell the panel, and then sell the rest to the salvage yard? Which salvage yard?

For the record, I do not own a 112TC. Thanks!

David


Is insurance paying for the nose wheel damage and engine teardown/inspection, which sounds like the majority of the expense?


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 Post subject: Re: Scrap or Repair ‘76 Rockwell 112TC
PostPosted: 27 Aug 2022, 09:59 
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Joined: 03/24/08
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Aircraft: Cessna 182M
Not a lot of support for that plane these days. A good owner's group (http://www.commander.org/ ) but what happens when you need a replacement left front lower gidget and none can be had from salvage shops and no drawings are available for fabrication? Are you sure no such issues arise?

RAS


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 Post subject: Re: Scrap or Repair ‘76 Rockwell 112TC
PostPosted: 27 Aug 2022, 15:38 
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Joined: 08/18/18
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Location: Melbourne, FL
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Another factor for your friend to consider:

If the economics check out for the repair route, do they have the time, energy and desire to become a project manager for the several months this will take to repair?

Unless they send it to a turn-key shop (like Del's) that specialize in unfolding crumpled airplanes, your friend will likely need to take an active role in the project.

This sort of repair has great potential to become the perpetual "side project" that seems ubiquitous in the corners of most shops. Your friend will need to stay engaged and help with sourcing parts and clearing roadblocks, especially in our current supply-chain-constrained world.

Your friend should consider the value of their time and add that to the "repair" equation. Some folks could actually enjoy the challenge of managing the project, but most certainly won't.


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 Post subject: Re: Scrap or Repair ‘76 Rockwell 112TC
PostPosted: 27 Aug 2022, 16:59 
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Joined: 11/30/12
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Location: Santa Fe, NM (KSAF)
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I wouldn't make a move without getting the opinion of Jim Richards at Aerodyme. He the the guru of everything pertaining to single engine Commanders.

http://www.aerodyme.com/Contact/contact.html


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 Post subject: Re: Scrap or Repair ‘76 Rockwell 112TC
PostPosted: 27 Aug 2022, 17:10 
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Joined: 11/08/12
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Location: Jackson, MS (KHKS)
Aircraft: 1961 Cessna 172
Username Protected wrote:
Last annual 12/20.


Many data points but this one would in general point me toward selling it as-is.

the ... ahem ... niche appeal of the 112TC also factors in that.

Is it possible to convert it to a 114? That might be a different story.


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 Post subject: Re: Scrap or Repair ‘76 Rockwell 112TC
PostPosted: 28 Aug 2022, 10:13 
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Joined: 06/02/10
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Company: Inscrutable Fasteners, LLC
Location: West Palm Beach - F45
Aircraft: Planeless
The problem with these situations is that parts & support for these airplanes are just not there. You could get 90% of the way in, and find out you need a part or two that are just not available. Sure, if it's something simple, you could do the OPP route, but if it's something complex, like a load bearing structural piece, you're SOL and you have a ton of cash already sunk.

The overall big picture is these airplanes (collectively, not just Rockwells, especially big piston twins), are starting to require warbird level of care, maintenance prowess and engineering ability. But they're not warbirds, nor experimental, which means you need to maintain them like the factory is still down the road churning out widgets, and, honestly, you're not going to get any breaks from people because working on them is "cool".

It stinks to have to scrap one, because they are utterly irreplaceable as a flying machine, but in the end, the juice to squeeze ratio is way far off. Maybe a better way to go is to reach out to the Commander gurus and see if the airplane can be parted out. See what people need to keep others flying.

Best,
Rich


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 Post subject: Re: Scrap or Repair ‘76 Rockwell 112TC
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2022, 18:15 
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Joined: 10/06/13
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Location: KOCF
Aircraft: Commander 114
Thank you all for the outstanding insight you’ve provided! I’m having lunch with the owner tomorrow. I’ll share this info with him.


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 Post subject: Re: Scrap or Repair ‘76 Rockwell 112TC
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2022, 10:40 
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Joined: 06/30/22
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Isn't the type certificate holder making parts?

They seem to have a lot of parts available.


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