BeechTalk - BT - Lowest op cost plane for 4 ppl 200knot, 800nm, no O2

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Dec 2020, 13:53

Username Protected wrote:

Straight C90...prices are cheaper than you would think for an early one. Engines go way beyond TBO (do HSI), part 91 you can find ways to save...

225-230TAS at 16-22k. Higher you go less fuel.

I’ll second the C90....this was from yesterday

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Dec 2020, 17:16

Vitatoe P210N - Around 210 Kt TAS at 21,000 ft, 16.8 GPH. Cabin at just over 9,000 f

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Dec 2020, 17:32

Username Protected wrote:

Citrus needs a 6 pax piston single.

Orange you glad spellchecker gotcha on this one?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 19 Dec 2020, 21:58

Username Protected wrote:

I think you pretty much have the perfect aircraft for your mission... maybe a Malibu but I don’t think it’s going to carry 4 people and do 800nm. Seems like most aircraft struggle to do over 180kts unless you go up high or have a bunch of power. That sucks your AerostAr ate a lifter, but that could happen in anything. I love how someone always mentions the king air or MU2 being so much more affordable to run than most think... well when a king air or MU2 eats the proverbial lifter it’s going to be a lot more than 100k lol.

PT6’s don’t eat lifters, they just run and run as long as they are operated properly. The C90’s are definitely more affordable than most people think. Rock solid and totally reliable.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Dec 2020, 09:40

Username Protected wrote:

PT6’s don’t eat lifters, they just run and run as long as they are operated properly. The C90’s are definitely more affordable than most people think. Rock solid and totally reliable.

Sure you can buy 'em cheap - but the Phase Inspections ($10K/2 yrs), gear ($30K/6 yrs) and prop overhauls ($30K/6 yrs) = $15K/ yr JUST SITTING IN THE HANGAR !

The OP said: "Lowest op cost plane for 4 ppl 200knot, 800nm, no O2" and in that department my little A* 600A has the lowest Ops cost VS performance of ANY/ALL Certified acft - basically, I will beat that old KA, door to door, on every trip for a mere fraction of DOC and prob' half acquisition (I paid 5 figures for mine) cost.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Dec 2020, 10:24

Username Protected wrote:

That’s the problem with the cost of aircraft. There are so many variables to the annual operating cost. I assumed my 421c would cost me more annually but that’s not been the case. Although to be fair I think fuel cost is less now than it was when I was flying my Mirage.

My annual inspection for my 421c was $12k thats $20k less than my PA-46. That covers a lot of fuel cost.

You will get 100 different opinions on this subject and they are all correct. Haha. For me the 421 is more challenging to fly but I feel safer flying it.

Mike

No doubt the 421 is a great aircraft. Wish they still made them, imagine with more modern engines, avionics and processes!! But it would be a $2-3 million aircraft which makes it compete from a cost standpoint with used light jets and SETPs. The Malibu/Mirage is built with the redundancy and systems of a twin, with just one engine. But 2 or 3 of everything else. 2 alternators, 2 vacuum pumps, main and auxillary heaters, 4 AI’s 2 ADCs, 3 AHRS, 2 pitot static systems, 2 turbos, radar etc. so it is a very robust single, but you need all that for safe flight level flying. I think your maintenance cost on your PA 46 is a little high, and your 421 seems a little low. If you get into a Malibu at the wrong time a lot of deferred maintenance can bite you.

Hope your good luck holds out. I have flown PA46s now for over a decade. My most expensive out of warranty annual was 13,000. I think my annual this year was under 3000, most of that tires, but that is artificial, because I’m on the Piper ultimate service plan which covers inspections, parts, almost everything except expendables such as tires, brakes, beta-blocks, as part of the purchase price. 20K annuals for an out of warranty PA46 is probably in the average ballpark.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Dec 2020, 15:00

PT-6's don't eat lifter,s but they do ingest things....
I've been around small airplanes since I was 14 (43 yrs) and I've only every seen
one lifter split in half failure....

The once in 40 yrs PT6- failure is going to cost a lot more than $100K...

Username Protected · **Posted:** 20 Dec 2020, 21:19

Chuck,

Its hard to compare new aircraft with old legacy aircraft when it comes to maintenance.

I would assume a new aircraft would have very little cost in annuals, I would hope so anyway.

My Mirage was a 1990 and my 421 is a 1977. Far from new and lots of variables. I also had a 1982 Saratoga that was more for the annual than my 421 just was.

I am just one data point out of thousands. So many ways to justify and account for cost. So many different aircraft conditions out there.

My 421 cost me less to acquire than my Mirage, a lot less. The lower cost of my loan covers about 50% of my increase in fuel cost. There is no way I could afford or justify a new aircraft. So everyone has their own story.

Mike